Wolf supporters, you happy ?

[jackmaster]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

[pianoman9701]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

I'm sure it was just cougars and bears. You've been reading propaganda again, haven't you JM? 

[trophyhunt]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

100%

[jackmaster]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

I'm sure it was just cougars and bears. You've been reading propaganda again, haven't you JM? 

haha, must have been  must had a moment of weakness and got sucked in by the liberal propaganda machine 

[jackelope]

I don't think it's possible to point the finger at wolves anywhere specifically. I think there are a metric crap ton of things, all contributing to the problem at hand. It's safe to say that the wolves don't kill a lot of elk in NE WA. I'm sure they kill some, but due to low elk densities, they don't kill a lot of elk(obviously). More deer and moose and grouse and rabbits and whatever else they happen on.
Likewise, I don't think the wolves kill a lot of deer in the southeast part of the state. Deer densities are low. See above.  Speaking of the southeast....remember my trail camera pictures I posted 3-5 years ago?  A dozen elk standing in a field? Huge bulls? A friend had that tag 2 years ago. They saw 1 immature bull  and they hunted the entire season, bell to bell. There's not enough wolves there to make a difference. Where did they go?
Too many factors. Too many different locations. Habitat loss is a factor...maybe not in 1 specific area, but it's a factor. Bad winters, maybe not the primary cause but it's a contributor. Mountain lions...they're bad.  Etc Etc Etc.

Maybe the passion on the wolf topic is blocking the overall picture for some.
 

Many would argue there’s plenty around those parts. They make their way all the way to the river.  Constant sightings north of town out in the fields where they can put a hurt on since small pockets of protected coverage.

Plenty of wolves? I'm sure there are some. But I'd wager they didn't kill all the elk in that GMU.

[Cougartail]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

I'm sure it was just cougars and bears. You've been reading propaganda again, haven't you JM? 

You guys are so smart..   First off, with all the wolf hating windbags on the internet why has Idaho never filled their wolf harvest quota? Typing is easier than leaving the comfort of your home and truck?

Now for a history lesson.. Prior to the late 90s in Idaho the Lion harvest was on average 800 to 900 cats per year. After 1998 the average has been 400 to 500 cats per year. During the post 1998 era they added 1000 wolves roughly. Now, how many cats were added in that 20 years of reduced lion harvest, on average of 400 per year? (1998 to 2018)

Simplistic explanations of complex population dynamics come from simple minds.. Do wolves reduce dear & elk populations, yes. Are they the largest contributor to the problem in Washington.. not even close. In Idaho, more so but still not the major cause of the decline.
Now grab your red capes and baskets and head over to grandma's house... it will be ok.. I promise!!!! 

 

[Special T]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

I'm sure it was just cougars and bears. You've been reading propaganda again, haven't you JM? 

You guys are so smart..   First off, with all the wolf hating windbags on the internet why has Idaho never filled their wolf harvest quota? Typing is easier than leaving the comfort of your home and truck?

Now for a history lesson.. Prior to the late 90s in Idaho the Lion harvest was on average 800 to 900 cats per year. After 1998 the average has been 400 to 500 cats per year. During the post 1998 era they added 1000 wolves roughly. Now, how many cats were added in that 20 years of reduced lion harvest, on average of 400 per year? (1998 to 2018)

Simplistic explanations of complex population dynamics come from simple minds.. Do wolves reduce dear & elk populations, yes. Are they the largest contributor to the problem in Washington.. not even close. In Idaho, more so but still not the major cause of the decline.
Now grab your red capes and baskets and head over to grandma's house... it will be ok.. I promise!!!! 

From your statement then the lack of harvest of all predators has contributed to the decline. As such they all need more management.

As usual us sportsmen are arguing the details and ignoring the broad facts.
The issue needs to be how do we in crease harvest of all predators in the areas most effected.?

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[Cougartail]

.
The issue needs to be how do we in crease harvest of all predators in the areas most effected.?

  And get some teeth in our poaching laws..

[Special T]

.
The issue needs to be how do we in crease harvest of all predators in the areas most effected.?

  And get some teeth in our poaching laws..

Ironic that it is the political will that fails sportsmen... not much science/logic...

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[jackelope]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

I'm sure it was just cougars and bears. You've been reading propaganda again, haven't you JM? 

You guys are so smart..   First off, with all the wolf hating windbags on the internet why has Idaho never filled their wolf harvest quota? Typing is easier than leaving the comfort of your home and truck?

Now for a history lesson.. Prior to the late 90s in Idaho the Lion harvest was on average 800 to 900 cats per year. After 1998 the average has been 400 to 500 cats per year. During the post 1998 era they added 1000 wolves roughly. Now, how many cats were added in that 20 years of reduced lion harvest, on average of 400 per year? (1998 to 2018)

Simplistic explanations of complex population dynamics come from simple minds.. Do wolves reduce dear & elk populations, yes. Are they the largest contributor to the problem in Washington.. not even close. In Idaho, more so but still not the major cause of the decline.
Now grab your red capes and baskets and head over to grandma's house... it will be ok.. I promise!!!! 

From your statement then the lack of harvest of all predators has contributed to the decline. As such they all need more management.

As usual us sportsmen are arguing the details and ignoring the broad facts.
The issue needs to be how do we in crease harvest of all predators in the areas most effected.?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Thank God someone sees it. The overall problem is really obvious to me. It's not JUST wolves.  If you think it is, you've got blinders on.

[Special T]

CTs numbers and dialog is sensible... If you disagree with his ratio of what animal to blame doesn't really matter. Look at the in/actions of the state to see where the motivations are.  Deer and elk poachers.. low level of enforcement efforts. Poaching wolves? Pull out the stops.  Reduce the opportunity to purchase  a deer or elk tag cougar bear combo.  Either buy whole package or just one animal. Outlaw hound hunting and bait. Greatly restrict trapping. Work with USFW to import Griz despite it being illegal. I'm sure there is more..

All if this shows the trend of increasing predator numbers and protecting them. The state won't help us so how are we going to help ourselves?

Inside the system... organize sportsmen orgs.
Outside the system... predator derbies, private funded bounties, greater emphis on  sport hunting predators, and trapping.

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[jackmaster]

I don't think ONE person has said that it has nothing to do with cats, bear and coyotes, the FACT is adding wolves to the mix AFTER they had been eradicated by MUCH smarter people obviously has added serious problems to our heards, especially with the already huge amount of habitat loss over the last 30 years, my BIG question is what do you geniuses say we do about it? I mean we lost trapping, which was the ONLY method to truly control bobcat and coyotes, we lose baiting which was the most effective method to control bear then we lose hound huntn which was the ONLY method that kept ALL of them in check!! I do my part, I predator hunt as much as possible and calling on the west side isn't and easy area to call in, SO my BIG question is what do we do??

[idahohuntr]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

100%

This is not an accurate portrayal of the facts.  Unmanaged wolves certainly had some impact on the perception of hunting quality in Idaho, but the primary factor in lower non-resident hunters was a major NR tag price increase at the same time as a major recession.  While some will deny the impact of weather, I will also remind folks at the same time as these price increases, and the same time as wolves still being ESA listed, we had a pretty hard winter in '08.  I remember getting 37 or 39 inches of snow in one 24 hour period in that winter.  The combo of wolves, price/recession, and hard winters taking a toll on game is why NR hunters were low for several years starting in 2009.  About 2013-15 folks started to see good increases in game numbers...and with a substantially improved economy and no (or minimal) price increases...we are back to seeing NR tags sell out.  Anyways, just passing along in case facts are of interest to folks.   

[KFhunter]

Cougartail, wasn't Idahos numbers declining so fast that your state was losing out of state hunters and their money so your govenor declared war on wolves? Isn't that when the numbers in idaho stabalized ?  If I remember corectly the moose and elk numbers were in big trouble 

I'm sure it was just cougars and bears. You've been reading propaganda again, haven't you JM? 

You guys are so smart..   First off, with all the wolf hating windbags on the internet why has Idaho never filled their wolf harvest quota? Typing is easier than leaving the comfort of your home and truck?

Now for a history lesson.. Prior to the late 90s in Idaho the Lion harvest was on average 800 to 900 cats per year. After 1998 the average has been 400 to 500 cats per year. During the post 1998 era they added 1000 wolves roughly. Now, how many cats were added in that 20 years of reduced lion harvest, on average of 400 per year? (1998 to 2018)

Simplistic explanations of complex population dynamics come from simple minds.. Do wolves reduce dear & elk populations, yes. Are they the largest contributor to the problem in Washington.. not even close. In Idaho, more so but still not the major cause of the decline.
Now grab your red capes and baskets and head over to grandma's house... it will be ok.. I promise!!!! 

From your statement then the lack of harvest of all predators has contributed to the decline. As such they all need more management.

As usual us sportsmen are arguing the details and ignoring the broad facts.
The issue needs to be how do we in crease harvest of all predators in the areas most effected.?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Thank God someone sees it. The overall problem is really obvious to me. It's not JUST wolves.  If you think it is, you've got blinders on.

Most of the Cougar quota's for WA is fulfilled, hunters have done their part in that regard.  It's not OUR fault the quota's are too small and pathetic.

We could kill more coyotes, We could kill more fall bears.


What we need to do is pressure WDFW through emails to our local elected officials to increase the Cougar quota's and spring bear draws by A LOT!


We need to pressure WDFW to revisit the wolf plan, de-list, and create a hunting season on them. 
We need to be involved, and part of that is educating other hunters on this very forum, this forum has generated a lot of letters to our representatives. 

[jackelope]

I don't think ONE person has said that it has nothing to do with cats, bear and coyotes, the FACT is adding wolves to the mix AFTER they had been eradicated by MUCH smarter people obviously has added serious problems to our heards, especially with the already huge amount of habitat loss over the last 30 years, my BIG question is what do you geniuses say we do about it? I mean we lost trapping, which was the ONLY method to truly control bobcat and coyotes, we lose baiting which was the most effective method to control bear then we lose hound huntn which was the ONLY method that kept ALL of them in check!! I do my part, I predator hunt as much as possible and calling on the west side isn't and easy area to call in, SO my BIG question is what do we do??

Special T just posted it above. The problem with hunters is they spend too much time arguing and bickering between themselves and don't come together as a collective group and act. Folks don't realize there are groups of hunters and like minded individuals out there trying to do something but they get no support from the community. Go to a wolf meeting and you'll see what I'm talking about. And I'm just as guilty as the next guy....don't get me wrong. I am curious who has done anything to support SCI, Washingtonians for Wildlife Conservation, etc. Who in this thread that is complaining about the current situation has actually done anything? Like I said I can't really talk, but I have donated time to SCI helping at the banquet in the last few months. It's not a lot but it's better than nothing.

You can shoot all the coyotes you want, but you know for every one you kill, there's another dozen still not too far away killing fawns.