Wolf supporters, you happy ?

[trophyhunt]

No wolves in the central cascades....... how long have you worked for the wdfw oh Mah?

[jackelope]

No wolves in the central cascades....... how long have you worked for the wdfw oh Mah?

Even WDFW doesn't deny their presence in the central cascades. There are confirmed packs!!
There are videos on the forum a member posted a month or 2 ago of a wolf in central WA. What the heck?

[trophyhunt]

No wolves in the central cascades....... how long have you worked for the wdfw oh Mah?

Even WDFW doesn't deny their presence in the central cascades. There are confirmed packs!!
There are videos on the forum a member posted a month or 2 ago of a wolf in central WA. What the heck?

[Cougartail]

No packs south of Chinook Pass. Hunting still sucks as all other predators are doing well.

Funny though, We were up howling on White Pass last fall and a hunter from another camp asked us if we heard the wolves? lol

[elkrack]

No packs south of Chinook Pass. Hunting still sucks as all other predators are doing well.

Funny though, We were up howling on White Pass last fall and a hunter from another camp asked us if we heard the wolves? lol

There’s wolves in rimrock

[vandeman17]

No wolves in the central cascades....... how long have you worked for the wdfw oh Mah?

I haven't kept up with this thread lately so it took me a bit to read the past few pages. Oh Mah sure is a character. I will give it to him that he is persistent but so far off. I live in central wa and have cameras all over. No wolves is like saying there are not fat people in the drive through at mcdonalds.

[elkrack]

I think the matter of fact is that this state is extremely predator friendly! Period. Whether we are talking about wolves bears cats or people.

[vandeman17]

I think the matter of fact is that this state is extremely predator friendly! Period. Whether we are talking about wolves bears cats or people.

100%. Multiple things need to change for big game numbers to improve

[KFhunter]

It's the constant harassing and chasing that's so different with wolves, the herds consume a lot more calories and stress a lot more with wolves than other predators.

A bear doesn't cause much stir with elk until they nab a fawn but even then they aren't running around all over the country, deer run off a ways blow and snort but it's not a big deal with a bear, they waddle around grazing them BAM! take a deer or fawn, crate a bit of havoc for a few minutes but it's over and done and very localized. 

Cougars are like a lightning strike, BAM! and done, very little herd panic.  Nearby deer all run down the mountain for a mile or three then calm down as no one is chasing them.

wolves, very different.  They aren't stalk and pounce predators and could care less if the deer/elk/moose see them coming.  They simply chase them relentlessly until one of the pack has locked on an animal, several of the pack can all lock onto animals as the whole herd gets chased for miles and miles then finally some will peel off and help bring down a big animal like elk, or several of the pack might all bring down multiple deer and spread out for miles chasing deer, they might be in pairs or "lone" in deer country but they aren't really all alone. 
With wolves the whole herd spends gobs of calories in extended chases that last for hours/days, if the cows have calves those calves go hungry and start calling, in come the bears, cougar and coyotes cashing in on undefended fawns making racket for their mamma's who are running for their lives. 

Direct kills by wolves aren't what the biggest problem is, it's the indirect kills.

In winter a non stressed herd can conserve calories and make it through the tough Feb/Mar and even April months, but a herd that's being chased non-stop all winter might not conserve enough calories and become a buzz word "winter kill",   yes winter kill can happen without wolves or other stresses, but wolves exacerbate it big time.  If a big animal is running through snow that's a bunch of calories being burnt, ever see a moose or elk quivering and shaking in the cold after a long run?  That's a lot of stress and can kill them even though no wolves are around it now (it got away, made it humans, wolves peeled off for a different animal that didn't make it) they did harasses it to that point.

[cbond3318]

Here is an article In Outdoor Life that claims this particular study has shown just the opposite.


https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/newshound/2013/06/study-wolves-not-cause-wyoming-elk-decline#page-4

[KFhunter]

You can find plenty of articles saying wolves aren't bad, that they only take the sick and wounded and make the herds stronger and make you a better hunter. 


I don't get my information from a magazine or some college professor in charge of large carnivore studies sitting in a classroom at WSU.

edit:
Actually now I've read the article it doesn't contradict me at all if you take out the obvious bias and just stick to the facts presented, funny thing is the facts in the article directly contradict the researchers own narrative.  Read it again with a unbiased eye and filter out the facts, then re-read what I wrote.  It's in there, if you can see it.

[buglebrush]

It's the constant harassing and chasing that's so different with wolves, the herds consume a lot more calories and stress a lot more with wolves than other predators.

A bear doesn't cause much stir with elk until they nab a fawn but even then they aren't running around all over the country, deer run off a ways blow and snort but it's not a big deal with a bear, they waddle around grazing them BAM! take a deer or fawn, crate a bit of havoc for a few minutes but it's over and done and very localized. 

Cougars are like a lightning strike, BAM! and done, very little herd panic.  Nearby deer all run down the mountain for a mile or three then calm down as no one is chasing them.

wolves, very different.  They aren't stalk and pounce predators and could care less if the deer/elk/moose see them coming.  They simply chase them relentlessly until one of the pack has locked on an animal, several of the pack can all lock onto animals as the whole herd gets chased for miles and miles then finally some will peel off and help bring down a big animal like elk, or several of the pack might all bring down multiple deer and spread out for miles chasing deer, they might be in pairs or "lone" in deer country but they aren't really all alone. 
With wolves the whole herd spends gobs of calories in extended chases that last for hours/days, if the cows have calves those calves go hungry and start calling, in come the bears, cougar and coyotes cashing in on undefended fawns making racket for their mamma's who are running for their lives. 

Direct kills by wolves aren't what the biggest problem is, it's the indirect kills.

In winter a non stressed herd can conserve calories and make it through the tough Feb/Mar and even April months, but a herd that's being chased non-stop all winter might not conserve enough calories and become a buzz word "winter kill",   yes winter kill can happen without wolves or other stresses, but wolves exacerbate it big time.  If a big animal is running through snow that's a bunch of calories being burnt, ever see a moose or elk quivering and shaking in the cold after a long run?  That's a lot of stress and can kill them even though no wolves are around it now (it got away, made it humans, wolves peeled off for a different animal that didn't make it) they did harasses it to that point.

  Exactly.

[trophyhunt]

It's the constant harassing and chasing that's so different with wolves, the herds consume a lot more calories and stress a lot more with wolves than other predators.

A bear doesn't cause much stir with elk until they nab a fawn but even then they aren't running around all over the country, deer run off a ways blow and snort but it's not a big deal with a bear, they waddle around grazing them BAM! take a deer or fawn, crate a bit of havoc for a few minutes but it's over and done and very localized. 

Cougars are like a lightning strike, BAM! and done, very little herd panic.  Nearby deer all run down the mountain for a mile or three then calm down as no one is chasing them.

wolves, very different.  They aren't stalk and pounce predators and could care less if the deer/elk/moose see them coming.  They simply chase them relentlessly until one of the pack has locked on an animal, several of the pack can all lock onto animals as the whole herd gets chased for miles and miles then finally some will peel off and help bring down a big animal like elk, or several of the pack might all bring down multiple deer and spread out for miles chasing deer, they might be in pairs or "lone" in deer country but they aren't really all alone. 
With wolves the whole herd spends gobs of calories in extended chases that last for hours/days, if the cows have calves those calves go hungry and start calling, in come the bears, cougar and coyotes cashing in on undefended fawns making racket for their mamma's who are running for their lives. 

Direct kills by wolves aren't what the biggest problem is, it's the indirect kills.

In winter a non stressed herd can conserve calories and make it through the tough Feb/Mar and even April months, but a herd that's being chased non-stop all winter might not conserve enough calories and become a buzz word "winter kill",   yes winter kill can happen without wolves or other stresses, but wolves exacerbate it big time.  If a big animal is running through snow that's a bunch of calories being burnt, ever see a moose or elk quivering and shaking in the cold after a long run?  That's a lot of stress and can kill them even though no wolves are around it now (it got away, made it humans, wolves peeled off for a different animal that didn't make it) they did harasses it to that point.

seriously, this is one of the best post’s of the year!  Spot on! And if anyone disagrees with this, they should never post again!  Great post, thank you!

[Cougartail]

No packs south of Chinook Pass. Hunting still sucks as all other predators are doing well.

Funny though, We were up howling on White Pass last fall and a hunter from another camp asked us if we heard the wolves? lol

There’s wolves in rimrock

Nope.. maybe one wondered through the area once. I hunt/trap/jeep/hike/mountain bike and explore that area as it's my backyard.

[cbond3318]

You can find plenty of articles saying wolves aren't bad, that they only take the sick and wounded and make the herds stronger and make you a better hunter. 


I don't get my information from a magazine or some college professor in charge of large carnivore studies sitting in a classroom at WSU.

edit:
Actually now I've read the article it doesn't contradict me at all if you take out the obvious bias and just stick to the facts presented, funny thing is the facts in the article directly contradict the researchers own narrative.  Read it again with a unbiased eye and filter out the facts, then re-read what I wrote.  It's in there, if you can see it.

Quote from the article:

"From my time in the field, I can say that most days in the life of a cow elk are pretty boring," Middleton says. On average, elk encountered wolves once every 9 days. The highest wolf-encounter rate for any individual elk was once every four days. And, even though elk were encountering wolves, they weren't overly stressed or run to starvation."


Please dont make assumptions about me. I found it interesting that this particular study, Funded by RMEF among others and assumedly done in conjuction with WY G&F, taken over the course of 3 yrs, showed that ELk werent  ran into an irrepairable calorie deficiency causing indirect deaths. But, maybe the research team are a bunch of Wolf Loving liberals with heavy wool. 

Maybe I misunderstood what your point was. The study doesn't touch on how many calves were eaten by Bears as a result of Cows being ran off by Wolves. It also doesnt touch on how many were killed by Wolves directly. But IMO, with an unbiased eye, this "Particular" article concludes Wolves did not run the Clark Fork Elk herd of Wyoming to death during the course of the 3 yr study. I have eyes open wide enough to not imediatly discredit ANY information gathered whether it contradicts my personal opinions or not. Unfortunatly I am not afforded the great opurtunity you have to make first hand observations in heavy wolf country.