A few thoughts on mountain goat permits

[X-Force]

Its silly that WDFW hasn't made permits Billy only. People are provided enough information to make the correct judgment call.

Billy only would not be enforceable, just like bears. I agree with the education portion though. If the rank and file hunters become more responsible in terms of billy harvest they will dilute the justification of special treatment to special interest.

It’s enforceable other states do it.

[DOUBLELUNG]

I really thought long and hard about putting in this year; my health isn't what it was when I drew in Wyoming in 2000.  I was fortunate to do it on my own two feet with a great friend who had killed a billy there the previous year.  On the plus side, I've been there and do know what it entails.  I applied where I know I can get packed in. 

Billy only is enforceable and should be implemented.  I was able to see the scrotum swing on mine, another giveaway (we also saw the smaller billy with mine pee). 

[shanevg]

Its silly that WDFW hasn't made permits Billy only. People are provided enough information to make the correct judgment call.

Billy only would not be enforceable, just like bears. I agree with the education portion though. If the rank and file hunters become more responsible in terms of billy harvest they will dilute the justification of special treatment to special interest.

It’s enforceable other states do it.

What states?  I can't think of any off the top of my head.

[Tbar]

Its silly that WDFW hasn't made permits Billy only. People are provided enough information to make the correct judgment call.

Billy only would not be enforceable, just like bears. I agree with the education portion though. If the rank and file hunters become more responsible in terms of billy harvest they will dilute the justification of special treatment to special interest.

It’s enforceable other states do it.

Okay...  With laws here for a gross misdemeanors it's criminal, so you have to prove intent.  Also other states that have tried have learned that it often leads to wastage when nannies are shot, resulting in two dead goats.  States like Alaska have a points quota weighted heavily when nannies are shot. Just out of curiosity which states are Billy only?

[Bob33]

I can actually related pretty well from my antelope hunting experience. A young buck antelope and a female antelope can both have horns of very similar size. The only was to visually distinguish them is that the bucks have a black cheek patch, and females don't. However, when you're looking at one straight one (which is typical) at 300 to 400 yards (which is typical) it can become extremely difficult because you can't even see the cheek much of the time. Factor in that the critters are about to take off at 50 mph and you need to "shoot now" or forget it. I have more times than I care to admit been pleased to see a set of balls (or vice versa depending on the license) when I got to the animal.

[idaho guy]

Its silly that WDFW hasn't made permits Billy only. People are provided enough information to make the correct judgment call.

Billy only would not be enforceable, just like bears. I agree with the education portion though. If the rank and file hunters become more responsible in terms of billy harvest they will dilute the justification of special treatment to special interest.

It’s enforceable other states do it.

Montana has a nannie only hunt in the crazys why wouldn't billy only be the same?

[PlateauNDN]

I can actually related pretty well from my antelope hunting experience. A young buck antelope and a female antelope can both have horns of very similar size. The only was to visually distinguish them is that the bucks have a black cheek patch, and females don't. However, when you're looking at one straight one (which is typical) at 300 to 400 yards (which is typical) it can become extremely difficult because you can't even see the cheek much of the time. Factor in that the critters are about to take off at 50 mph and you need to "shoot now" or forget it. I have more times than I care to admit been pleased to see a set of balls (or vice versa depending on the license) when I got to the animal.

  I got within couple hundred yards and at that range they all look the same.

[X-Force]

Its silly that WDFW hasn't made permits Billy only. People are provided enough information to make the correct judgment call.

Billy only would not be enforceable, just like bears. I agree with the education portion though. If the rank and file hunters become more responsible in terms of billy harvest they will dilute the justification of special treatment to special interest.

It’s enforceable other states do it.

Montana has a nannie only hunt in the crazys why wouldn't billy only be the same?

Exactly my thoughts. I don’t believe there is a state that has a billy only season but lots of states have female only seasons so what’s the difference in enforcement?

[Tbar]

Its silly that WDFW hasn't made permits Billy only. People are provided enough information to make the correct judgment call.

Billy only would not be enforceable, just like bears. I agree with the education portion though. If the rank and file hunters become more responsible in terms of billy harvest they will dilute the justification of special treatment to special interest.

It’s enforceable other states do it.

Montana has a nannie only hunt in the crazys why wouldn't billy only be the same?

Exactly my thoughts. I don’t believe there is a state that has a billy only season but lots of states have female only seasons so what’s the difference in enforcement?

Not trying to be argumentative or judge but did you guys know it was a nanny before the shot? I can tell you (from experience) that after watching a 51 inch billy for two plus hours, watching him pee, being positive it was a monster billy, looking at the pads, going over every physical and mental checklist and looking at reference pictures- I knew it was a billy when we flipped him over.  Again not trying to judge but cannot emphasize enough on how difficult telling the difference is.  I've never been so humbled by such an awsome animal for so many reasons.

[jackelope]

Deep down inside I knew mine was a billy but I have self doubt issues sometimes. Maybe call it self confidence. I second guess myself a lot on some things. The more important, the harder it is for me at times to make those types of decisions. I did a lot of hemming and hawing on the mountain that day. I was positive the whole time, but I wasn’t.

[shanevg]

Its silly that WDFW hasn't made permits Billy only. People are provided enough information to make the correct judgment call.

Billy only would not be enforceable, just like bears. I agree with the education portion though. If the rank and file hunters become more responsible in terms of billy harvest they will dilute the justification of special treatment to special interest.

It’s enforceable other states do it.

Montana has a nannie only hunt in the crazys why wouldn't billy only be the same?

Lots of states have nanny only seasons but IMO knowing something is 100% a nanny is much easier than knowing something is 100% billy. There are decent sized bullies (say a 45-46” goat with long thinner horns) that would be very hard to distinguiish from a nanny. On the other hand, an average nanny is really quite easy to disitngiush and if it has built like characteristics, it’s also easy to pass for a different nanny. Plus the fact that nannies are often in larger herds where lone goats which are often but not always billies are often misidentified. Again on a nanny only hunt, it’s really easy to pass on that goat.

Another factor is that the science that goes into nanny only hunts really leaves a lot of room for error. The state is purposely trying to reduce herd size when giving nanny only tags so while misidentification would be unfortunate, it really doesn’t change what they are trying to do with the herd.

I’ll just say, there is a reason there are nanny only hunts in some states but no billy only hunts in any states that I’m aware of.

[Tbar]

Deep down inside I knew mine was a billy but I have self doubt issues sometimes. Maybe call it self confidence. I second guess myself a lot on some things. The more important, the harder it is for me at times to make those types of decisions. I did a lot of hemming and hawing on the mountain that day. I was positive the whole time, but I wasn’t

I've been on hunts with  both 365+" and 390" elk both times I knew with out a single doubt giants hit the ground and was literally speechless before we ever approached.  It's not that simple with goats. 

[PlateauNDN]

Can anybody guess the gender.

[lewy]

Great thread, if I don’t draw in the next few years which I probably won’t i will be seriously researching outfitters. Want to get this one knocked out while I can still pound the deep and steep!

[j_h_nimrod]

For Plats picture, hard to say from a grainy snap, but would guess a nanny group. That one on the left is so tall and wide that it is either a monster billy or an older nanny, for the size there seems to be a bit too much space between bases for a billy. For the middle one in profile, there seems to be a nice curve and good bases, but think we are actually seeing both horns superimposed. What were they?


Read Douglas Chadwick - A Beast the Color of Winter

Some good information and good characteristics and behaviors of billies and nannies plus a lot more. The beginning is pretty good but it drags during portions. Certainly worth reading though.