A few thoughts on mountain goat permits

[jackelope]

The third goat is actually a nanny. I’m the one who took that photo. I watched that goat for a couple of hours that day and saw her urinate to confirm she was a nanny.

I was going with nanny too. I can't remember where I found that picture. I have a few more of your photos that I saved on my phone for reference.

[Bushcraft]

Great post Josh.  You definitely did justice to the OIL tag you drew. Bravo!

I have to admit that my jaw clenched a little when I read that an individual who successfully drew one of these highly coveted tags (for some of us anyway) and didn't hunt because “he didn’t realize it was so difficult”.  Say what?!?! That got under my skin because it effectively robbed someone else of the opportunity. What a jerk!  That joker should not have put in for it in the first place.  For starters, yes, it takes a little effort to hike into some of our mountain goat areas, but it isn’t particularly difficult if you are in decent shape, have decent gear, have some backcountry experience, and perhaps most importantly…time.  In my opinion, one should know what they are getting into and be absolutely willing to “embrace the suck”  before applying for the tag.  If not, don’t put in for the draw.  I suppose it’s probably better that he didn’t hunt because he would have likely just settled for a nanny like too many people do.

Which leads me to another thing that can get me a little hot under the collar: I personally think it is inexcusable to shoot a nanny in this state.  Other than the Olympic Peninsula population, the remaining pockets of goat populations are fragile and whacking a nanny is a selfish, lazy act that adversely impacts those populations.  It is NOT difficult to determine sex if you take your time.  It is actually pretty easy.  Spending time looking at pictures, or better yet…get out with someone that knows during scouting/conditioning trips.  There are so many resources available now that help people understand what to look for. And there are a TON of experienced people that would be happy to tag along on a hunt and help a guy out.

Take the pictures that you posted for example, if someone knows what to look for, it is pretty easy to get a good idea of which sex they are with a casual glance. Picture #1: Billy…The bases are significantly larger than the eyes. Picture #2: Nanny…small bases relative to the eyes with significant space between the bases.  They are relatively straight and tweak back a bit at the tops too.  BTW, I’ve got some pics of goats taken next to those same trees. Picture 3: This is could go either way since it isn’t clear just how big the bases are, but watching it for a while would clear it up.  Picture 4: Billy. No question.

Anyone that draws a goat tag should seriously consider joining an SCI/RMGA sponsored goat count.  Sitting with someone that knows what to look for can pretty dramatically improve the learning curve.  There will be a significant need for volunteers this summer. Stay tuned!

Best,

Allen   

[DOUBLELUNG]

I have to admit that my jaw clenched a little when I read that an individual who successfully drew one of these highly coveted tags (for some of us anyway) and didn't hunt because “he didn’t realize it was so difficult”. 

Several years ago I helped a Lake Chelan N goat permit holder contact a local goat enthusiast who was willing to help out a stranger.  He made plans to go on an August scouting trip with him, they met in Chelan and the enthusiast pointed out where they would be going.  The permittee said "Huh", got back in his car and drove away, never to be heard from again. 

[jackelope]

Full disclosure on the person who didn't hunt that I was referring to was that he was a tribal member with a permit he drew. Not a permit he drew from WDFW. I felt like I should clarify that.  Shouldn't really make a difference, I just realized it might be confusing because WDFW harvest stats said permit holders went 5 for 5 in the Goat Rocks.

[WAcoueshunter]

Speaking of goat hunts...reading Jackelope's story in Epic right now!

[jackelope]

Speaking of goat hunts...reading Jackelope's story in Epic right now!

  

[520backyard]

Drew a goat tag in 97 first time putting in for a goat tag took this billy in early October 9 7/8  5 3/8. That time of year older billies have a slight yellow tinge to them makes identification pretty easy. Saw a lot of goats and when I saw this one's size I had no doubt he was a billy and then saw the yellow tinge. Ended up roped off on some pretty steep stuff and had to rope off the billy as well in order to work on him. Couple things about goat hunting I know. If it's socked in you can't spot them remember you are up in the clouds when there is clouds, so hunt hard during blue bird weather. And you will see goats go to where you saw the goats and the goats will be gone. Bring rope.

So 97 was the last year before a goat tag became a OIL tag, so I can still put in and I do every year.

[sagerat]

My old man did the same thing. He was in on several goat hunts in Snohomish and Skagit counties back in the day. Now he’s got a goat on the wall and still sitting on max points hoping to draw again...

[Bob33]

1969:

[CaNINE]

For me, a goat hunt is the top bucket list experience of North American big game .  I’ve lived vicariously through other tag holders and helped scout and lead them, sometimes dragging, up the mountain.  I’m sitting on max points but with single digit draw odds I’m planning a BC or AK hunt in the next 3 years. If anyone has recommended outfitters please share them. 

[Timberstalker]

900 goat Permits in 1969. 900!!

We have 27 now.

[520backyard]

900 goat Permits in 1969. 900!!

We have 27 now.

Now think of the number of mountain goats killed by the National Park Service in the Olympic nation park. It is well over a thousand, the exact number is hard to pinpoint might be double that, they like to hide that information. Now think of a 6 to 8% reproductive increase that the number of goats killed by the NPS in the Olympic national park would have had on the overall mountain goat population in Washington State had they been relocated. Mad yet?

[jackelope]

For me, a goat hunt is the top bucket list experience of North American big game .  I’ve lived vicariously through other tag holders and helped scout and lead them, sometimes dragging, up the mountain.  I’m sitting on max points but with single digit draw odds I’m planning a BC or AK hunt in the next 3 years. If anyone has recommended outfitters please share them. 

@archery288  Can you share an outfitter recommendation?

[archery288]

For me, a goat hunt is the top bucket list experience of North American big game .  I’ve lived vicariously through other tag holders and helped scout and lead them, sometimes dragging, up the mountain.  I’m sitting on max points but with single digit draw odds I’m planning a BC or AK hunt in the next 3 years. If anyone has recommended outfitters please share them. 

@archery288  Can you share an outfitter recommendation?

Sure thing!    I would HIGHLY recommend North River Outfitting in BC.  https://northriveroutfitting.com

I got a chance to hunt with them last year.  It was truly a top notch operation and two of the nicest people that you'll ever meet, own and operate it.  They hunt the Cassiar mountains which are inland up by the Yukon border.  While goats out on the coast in BC might be bigger, and when I say bigger I'm talking about the chance to kill an 11" goat.  Something truly world class, but they are few and far between.  In the Cassiars North River averages 9.5" on their goats.  I killed a 10" goat with them, which is very do-able if you hunt hard.  Seeing goats in not an issue at all.  They do their homework and know where they are and there's no shortage.  Plus, you'll get to fly in over 100 miles from the nearest road so you are truly by yourself. 

Here is a picture of the goat I took with them. 

[Rainier10]

Sweet goat and photo.
Congrats.