Accused bear poacher breaks silence, points finger at WDFW

[bearbaito6]

Alan is 100 percent right on the money with his posts..

[257 Wby Mag]

 No he’s not. And that’s a fact... maybe in a honest perfect world, but he’s not even close to a 100% right...

[hunter399]

Alan is 100 percent right on the money with his posts..

No he’s not. And that’s a fact... maybe in a honest perfect world, but he’s not even close to a 100% right...

I agree 
Timber company that charges access fees shouldn't complain about bear damage there not allowing hunters in to hunt bears .But think its wdfw problem that they have tree damage.
What a joke that is.

[pianoman9701]

Lokidog, look at the Kapowsin spring bear hunt. It does all of those things you mention (minus free access, which is irrelevant when discussing the efficacy of a boot hunt). 150 spring bear permits, more than any other spring bear hunt on the west side by a wide margin, damage area maps are provided by landowners last I saw, yet there is a harvest of only 4 to 8 annually. Those bears could be taken anywhere in the spring bear area too, and it's not a stretch to assume most are taken in clearcuts as opposed to the 12 year old stands that are being damaged where visibility is about 3 feet.

Contrast that with a forester discovering fresh peeling in that same 12 year old stand, documenting the damage, applying for and receiving a permit within days, houndsman shows up, strikes bear almost always in that same stand with that quick of a turnaround, dogs root the bear out of the thick stuff and the problem is solved.

The targeting abilities of hounds on depredation permits compared to spring bear boot hunts just doesn't compare, I'm sorry, it just doesn't.

Again, I'm all for expanded spring bear opportunities. Frankly the population could sustain a year around OTC bear hunt here on the west side with how thick things are. Spring/fall, it doesn't matter. Success will always be low with the vegetation and where these animals spend their time. Over the long term if the overall population were brought down damage would as well since a percentage of the take would surely be damagers, but until that day comes property owners cannot be left out to dry.

The property owners who've turned to charging for access as an income generator should be left out to dry or be required to allow free access to bear hunters before they're given hound permits. The same goes for elk damage permits. Unfortunately, we have a DFW with no intestinal fortitude and an inability to stand up to the big lobby money in Olympia - timber money. The big timber companies are still taking advantage of a deferred real estate taxes scheme which was implemented with a full expectation by the state to coincide with unfettered public access, while they now collect hundreds of thousands of dollars for public access to their lands. They have their cake, extra icing with the added fees, and they're eating it all the way to the bank. I have a hard time siding with these private land owners as long as they receive deferred taxation while I pay the full rate.

[257 Wby Mag]

Yes let the folks that buy there access permit hunt spring wide open.... timber companies are to powerful.....

[saylean]

Accused bear poacher breaks silence, points finger at WDFW
https://www.king5.com/article/tech/science/environment/accused-bear-poacher-breaks-silence-points-finger-at-wdfw/281-545006442

I got no love for poachers. WDFW didnt make him do it, he chose to do it.
King 5's angle is just to stir the anti hunting pot as much as they can to get institutions like HSUS and the like to file suit, and to affect public opinion on hunters. Get a poacher on tv who is defending his poaching and it casts a negative light on those of us hunters who follow the rules.

[fireweed]

Its Bat S Crazy to complain to the WDFW about problem bears, get a special hound permit season that circumvents the normal rules--and then turn around and CHARGE the hunters to hunt bears in spring hunts or fall hunts.  Heck, they might even force their hound hunters to buy access permits, too.  Total loss of credibility in the program.  Don't tell me this is about targeting a few, specific problem bears because I have been around it enough to know overall population control is a goal when dealing with large industrial sized tree farms.

[Elkcollector82]

Its Bat S Crazy to complain to the WDFW about problem bears, get a special hound permit season that circumvents the normal rules--and then turn around and CHARGE the hunters to hunt bears in spring hunts or fall hunts.  Heck, they might even force their hound hunters to buy access permits, too.  Total loss of credibility in the program.  Don't tell me this is about targeting a few, specific problem bears because I have been around it enough to know overall population control is a goal when dealing with large industrial sized tree farms.

 

They list the bear parts that are required to be turned in. Pretty sad that meat wasn’t on the list.  Boot hunters allowed to keep one whole bear. Hound hunters can’t keep any, but the meat of ONE bear. Two bears per permit. They say they average 100 bears taken during this time. That’s a lot of wasted meat laying out in the canyon. Guys who put out the supplemental feeder barrels are the same guys running dogs. Hmmmm. That’s a great tactic. Put a few barrels out, get bears in the area. Remove barrels and run dogs. They also claimed that a sow with cubs is recommended not to be taken. Isn’t required to let the sow go. Sounds like  It’s Up to the hunter.

It’s a painful two hours to watch them two stumble and backtrack on everything they say. It’s priceless though when alison asked them why two bears per permit. Anis eyes couldn’t have gotten any bigger.

So that guy supposedly wasted game meat.  Yet these two yahoo’s state on tv that the bear meat isn’t required to be checked in. So the department ok’s wasting bear meat on a depredation permit.

[Special T]

Since this has turned into a damage discussion, I thought I would point out a couple of points that are important.
Small family farms CAN be an ally in increasing opportunity. Many on here like to hop on the big timber companies because they make good punching bags, but it's the smaller folks that really suffer.

The WFFA Washington Farm Forrestry Association is a group of small land owners that is crying for help. Ken Miller of Olympia has testified to the commision several times on this issue. It has appeared to me that they are open to supporting nearly any solution.

https://www.wafarmforestry.com


This article talks about the problems small farmers are having with elk in the Skagit valley floor. Much of it due to the fiasco that happened on the Johnson feild next to Hwy 20 a few years back.

The important part of the article

call to cull

Those suffering property damage and financial losses due to elk want the number of animals in the herd reduced.

"There needs to be a culling," dairy farmer Derek Blanken said while discussing the issue during a rainy day in March. 

Some said they believe more hunting should be allowed in the valley and avoided in the forested hills enclosing it. 

"I would like to see the agricultural zone between South Skagit Highway and Highway 20 have more of an open season ... to try to keep the numbers down on the agricultural land," Schmidt said. "We need a little more coordination between hunting and farming."

Cindy Ovenell-Kleinhuizen, who runs the Double O Ranch south of Concrete, said she believes more hunting is needed because for young elk born in the valley, it's the only home they've known and where they are likely to stay. 

"The only way to fix it is to eliminate them," she said.

https://www.goskagit.com/news/state-acknowledges-need-to-reduce-elk-damage-in-the-skagit/article_9fb33363-3691-5852-a9f5-d370cd1db4f9.html


If sportsmen want more access we need to  work with farmers for a solution. As a group we don't seem to have as much influence as we should. By partnering up with farmers we should be able to make inroads for access and opportunity. Jay Holzmiller is on the wildlife commission from Anatone and is concerned with property rights issues. Likely an Ally on these issues.

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[Special T]

Alan is 100 percent right on the money with his posts..

No he’s not. And that’s a fact... maybe in a honest perfect world, but he’s not even close to a 100% right...

I agree 
Timber company that charges access fees shouldn't complain about bear damage there not allowing hunters in to hunt bears .But think its wdfw problem that they have tree damage.
What a joke that is.

Are you a member of WFFA?

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[Special T]

I should also add that a big issue in the sucess or lack there of for damage hunts is the frequency of harrassment.

I have a friend whom is in the MH program and has participated in the elk program in the upper Skagit. Because he is local the farmers loved to have him come up, because he would Come up several times a week even mid week. There currently isn't a way to discriminate between those whom apply. The most effective help likely comes from some one local and or retired or in school so that constant harrassment can take place.

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[pianoman9701]

I have problem discussing very real problems with WA's bear program in a thread about a serial resource stealer/poacher. People caught doing something illegal either lie about it or have an excuse. This guy is no different. He would've ended up being arrested for poaching multiple animals even if we hadn't changed the WA laws regarding baiting and hounds. Although the discussion about our bear and cougar laws is valid, it shouldn't be mixed in with the report on this lowlife's illegal activities, IMHO. 

[Special T]

I concur... but I can't start a new thread with taptalk.. only have my phone, and  can't pull the forum up on the internet browser with Tap talk installed...

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[Elkcollector82]

I have problem discussing very real problems with WA's bear program in a thread about a serial resource stealer/poacher. People caught doing something illegal either lie about it or have an excuse. This guy is no different. He would've ended up being arrested for poaching multiple animals even if we hadn't changed the WA laws regarding baiting and hounds. Although the discussion about our bear and cougar laws is valid, it shouldn't be mixed in with the report on this lowlife's illegal activities, IMHO. 

I concur... but I can't start a new thread with taptalk.. only have my phone, and  can't pull the forum up on the internet browser with Tap talk installed...

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I started one