Permit changes - youth without hunters ed can no longer build points

[jackmaster]

My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!

Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for?  We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids?  They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.

These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole

not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!

[CarbonHunter]

My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!

Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for?  We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids?  They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.

These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole

not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!

You still don’t have to have a hunting license to get points for OIL, this rule change just means you need a hunting ed certificate if you are born after 1972. And I did spend today hunting for spring bear with my 5 year old.. like I said earlier I feel anyone that says kids shouldn’t be able to purchase points should be turning in the points they aren’t  qualified for that they received for free.

[ryanj]

Why even leave 1 youth moose tag they might as well take them all. It would save me from putting in for my kids year after year with false hope of drawing a tag! they don't make enuff money on the youth tags! so they will always be first to get cut.   

[Curly]

My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!

Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for?  We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids?  They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.

These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole

not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!

You still don’t have to have a hunting license to get points for OIL, this rule change just means you need a hunting ed certificate if you are born after 1972. And I did spend today hunting for spring bear with my 5 year old.. like I said earlier I feel anyone that says kids shouldn’t be able to purchase points should be turning in the points they aren’t  qualified for that they received for free.

That would be excellent if wdfw would purge out the points that people did not earn.  However, I doubt that is going to happen.  It would cost them a bunch of money to go and do what they should have done when this current category system fiasco was implemented. 

At least they are finally doing a little toward the right thing and not letting newborns accumulate points.   Just my opinion.......YMMV.

[ryanj]

its not like it wasnt fair, everyone had the option to buy there kids points at whatever age they were. it was my choice if i didn't or did. boo hoo !

[CarbonHunter]

My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!

Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for?  We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids?  They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.

These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole

not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!

You still don’t have to have a hunting license to get points for OIL, this rule change just means you need a hunting ed certificate if you are born after 1972. And I did spend today hunting for spring bear with my 5 year old.. like I said earlier I feel anyone that says kids shouldn’t be able to purchase points should be turning in the points they aren’t  qualified for that they received for free.

That would be excellent if wdfw would purge out the points that people did not earn.  However, I doubt that is going to happen.  It would cost them a bunch of money to go and do what they should have done when this current category system fiasco was implemented. 

At least they are finally doing a little toward the right thing and not letting newborns accumulate points.   Just my opinion.......YMMV.

It would cost the wdfw zero dollars to eliminate the points that we did not earn. It would only take a simple SQL script to search and delete the unearned points from the database.

[NRA4LIFE]

I know I'll get flamed for this but I'm all for this.  I witnessed many 3 and 4 year olds in camps up near Republic many years ago with 2  does hanging and you can't tell me they were capable of shooting a high powered rifle that can kill a deer.  Sorry.  Dad was killing all the does.

[trophyhunt]

I also agree w this change.

[Bob33]

My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!

Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for?  We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids?  They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.

These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole

not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!

You still don’t have to have a hunting license to get points for OIL, this rule change just means you need a hunting ed certificate if you are born after 1972. And I did spend today hunting for spring bear with my 5 year old.. like I said earlier I feel anyone that says kids shouldn’t be able to purchase points should be turning in the points they aren’t  qualified for that they received for free.

That would be excellent if wdfw would purge out the points that people did not earn.  However, I doubt that is going to happen.  It would cost them a bunch of money to go and do what they should have done when this current category system fiasco was implemented. 

At least they are finally doing a little toward the right thing and not letting newborns accumulate points.   Just my opinion.......YMMV.

It would cost the wdfw zero dollars to eliminate the points that we did not earn. It would only take a simple SQL script to search and delete the unearned points from the database.

It's not that simple. For one, a WAC would need to be changed which requires legislative approval.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-412-080

iii. An applicant's accumulated point totals, immediately prior to sales of the 2010 permit applications, will be replicated across all categories for that species. The point replication will only occur in 2010, during the transition from single species categories to multiple categories of the same species.

Secondly, it would create a situation of unequal treatment for those with unearned and unused points, versus those who have used them.

It shouldn't have happened but it did and it's highly unlikely to change now.

[CarbonHunter]

My be a dumb perspective but why should a kid be allowed to get points before they are even hunting ?? Why would it be ok to start buying a new born points? That's what doesn't make sense!!

Why should hunters under 65 have points for 65 and older and points for master hunter and all the other categories they don’t qualify for?  We all do because the states system is a mess, why go after the kids?  They should also delete the points for everyone under 65 and those who aren’t disabled and every other category that we shouldn’t have points for.

These points that the kids have were at least purchased the rest of us are sitting on points that we received for free that we shouldn’t have. Funny how I see the people who are saying the kids shouldn’t be able to buy tags through a loop hole are quietly sitting on points they received through a loop hole

not even a valid argument , a new born kid doesn't have a huntn license, no huntn license no points pure and simple!! Both my kids hunt and have since my son was 9 and my daughter was 11 , after they got their hunter ed cards I started putting them in for points, buying points for a kid that you aren't even sure is going to end up huntn is rediculous !! You want kids to get in to huntn then take them huntn, that's the ONLY way to ensure huntings survival!! The point system is a joke anyway you look at it but not allowing kids that don't even have hunter ed under their belt makes complete sense!!!

You still don’t have to have a hunting license to get points for OIL, this rule change just means you need a hunting ed certificate if you are born after 1972. And I did spend today hunting for spring bear with my 5 year old.. like I said earlier I feel anyone that says kids shouldn’t be able to purchase points should be turning in the points they aren’t  qualified for that they received for free.

That would be excellent if wdfw would purge out the points that people did not earn.  However, I doubt that is going to happen.  It would cost them a bunch of money to go and do what they should have done when this current category system fiasco was implemented. 

At least they are finally doing a little toward the right thing and not letting newborns accumulate points.   Just my opinion.......YMMV.

It would cost the wdfw zero dollars to eliminate the points that we did not earn. It would only take a simple SQL script to search and delete the unearned points from the database.

It's not that simple. For one, a WAC would need to be changed which requires legislative approval.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=220-412-080

iii. An applicant's accumulated point totals, immediately prior to sales of the 2010 permit applications, will be replicated across all categories for that species. The point replication will only occur in 2010, during the transition from single species categories to multiple categories of the same species.

Secondly, it would create a situation of unequal treatment for those with unearned and unused points, versus those who have used them.

It shouldn't have happened but it did and it's highly unlikely to change now.

All they have to do is line out, or replace  Diii in the next rule making session and replace it with “if not eligible on 3/30/2019 and the points were granted by the rule change of 2010 without purchase of special permit application, points will be removed on 4/1/2019”. It happens every year during the rule making session no different than the process we just went through.

[bobcat]

I know I'll get flamed for this but I'm all for this.  I witnessed many 3 and 4 year olds in camps up near Republic many years ago with 2  does hanging and you can't tell me they were capable of shooting a high powered rifle that can kill a deer.  Sorry.  Dad was killing all the does.

That's just about impossible. I don't think there are any 3 and 4 year olds going through, and passing hunter education. Which they would have to do in order to purchase a hunting license and deer tags.

[X-Force]

I know I'll get flamed for this but I'm all for this.  I witnessed many 3 and 4 year olds in camps up near Republic many years ago with 2  does hanging and you can't tell me they were capable of shooting a high powered rifle that can kill a deer.  Sorry.  Dad was killing all the does.

If this is actually the case these kids would still be able to get points because they would have theoretically passed hunters ed...

[Bob33]

The youngest student to pass our hunter education course was seven. I cant imagine a student of three having the ability to pass.

[LongBomb]

How bout the kids that have points already? Will they keep their points until they pass hunter ed and actually can apply for hunts?

Yes they will.  I still have 6 youth points and 6 senior points from when they divided up all the categories a few years back.  I am 46.

Somehow i have 6 points in each of these elk categories, 65+,disabled,master, and youth... I'm not a youth, not even close to 65, haven't ever been disabled and never been a master hunter... not sure how i got these points? Maybe my dad back in the day applied for them trying for something else is it possible to transfer points at all? 3 of those i may be someday but don't think i will be 16 again. Any suggestions?

[Bullkllr]

How bout the kids that have points already? Will they keep their points until they pass hunter ed and actually can apply for hunts?

Yes they will.  I still have 6 youth points and 6 senior points from when they divided up all the categories a few years back.  I am 46.

Somehow i have 6 points in each of these elk categories, 65+,disabled,master, and youth... I'm not a youth, not even close to 65, haven't ever been disabled and never been a master hunter... not sure how i got these points? Maybe my dad back in the day applied for them trying for something else is it possible to transfer points at all? 3 of those i may be someday but don't think i will be 16 again. Any suggestions?

It happened when they went to the multi-category plan for each species. Whatever you had for "elk points" before- when there was only one category- were automatically transferred to all elk categories, even categories you can not apply for. It made a bad system change even worse.

And no, they can't be transferred.