Permit changes - youth without hunters ed can no longer build points

[LongBomb]

Bugger i guess i will just wait till I'm 65 disabled and a master hunter

[Bigshooter]

The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth?  That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits.  98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit. 

I think it's a good change.  If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.

[PolarBear]

 

[X-Force]

The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth?  That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits.  98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit. 

I think it's a good change.  If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.

It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?

[Jason]

The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth?  That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits.  98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit. 

I think it's a good change.  If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.

I agree.

[bobcat]

The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth?  That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits.  98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit. 

I think it's a good change.  If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.

It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?

No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.

[X-Force]

The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth?  That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits.  98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit. 

I think it's a good change.  If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.

It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?

No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.

A 3 year old isn't applying to hunt the species... A 3 year old would have the opportunity to keep up with the point creep.

[pianoman9701]

I think the rule change is more fair. You shouldn't be able to start accumulating points for an OIL tag if you're not a licensed hunter. 

[bobcat]

The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth?  That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits.  98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit. 

I think it's a good change.  If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.

It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?

No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.

A 3 year old isn't applying to hunt the species... A 3 year old would have the opportunity to keep up with the point creep.

Can it seriously be called "point creep" when we're talking about moose, sheep, and goat permits? I don't think so. These permits are so few in number that using the point system never should have happened with these permits in the first place. I think perhaps the fairest thing to do to "fix" this problem, would be to no longer square the points. So a person with 20 points only gets 20 chances in the draw instead of 400. That would be even better for new hunters than the ability to accumulate a few points before they're even old enough to hunt.

[X-Force]

The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth?  That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits.  98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit. 

I think it's a good change.  If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.

It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?

No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.

A 3 year old isn't applying to hunt the species... A 3 year old would have the opportunity to keep up with the point creep.

Can it seriously be called "point creep" when we're talking about moose, sheep, and goat permits? I don't think so. These permits are so few in number that using the point system never should have happened with these permits in the first place. I think perhaps the fairest thing to do to "fix" this problem, would be to no longer square the points. So a person with 20 points only gets 20 chances in the draw instead of 400. That would be even better for new hunters than the ability to accumulate a few points before they're even old enough to hunt.

I am agreement with you that the system needs to be fixed but we aren't discussing fixing the system we are discussing keeping the same system and eliminating one groups ability to accumulate points.

[bobcat]

The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth?  That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits.  98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit. 

I think it's a good change.  If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.

It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?

No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.

A 3 year old isn't applying to hunt the species... A 3 year old would have the opportunity to keep up with the point creep.

Can it seriously be called "point creep" when we're talking about moose, sheep, and goat permits? I don't think so. These permits are so few in number that using the point system never should have happened with these permits in the first place. I think perhaps the fairest thing to do to "fix" this problem, would be to no longer square the points. So a person with 20 points only gets 20 chances in the draw instead of 400. That would be even better for new hunters than the ability to accumulate a few points before they're even old enough to hunt.

I am agreement with you that the system needs to be fixed but we aren't discussing fixing the system we are discussing keeping the same system and eliminating one groups ability to accumulate points.

Okay, but points are for those who apply for a hunt and are unsuccessful in drawing that hunt. It was never intended for children to begin accumulating points from the day they are born. That it was possible was a mistake that has now been fixed.

[X-Force]

The only argument for this is it gives more opportunity for youth?  That's hilarious. With so few OIL permits.  98-99.9% will never draw a OIL permit. 

I think it's a good change.  If you legally can't hunt you shouldn't be able to buy pts.

It’s hilarious that with so few permits the same people who support taking point building away from kids also support thereown abiltiy to put in for every species. If the lack of permits is the reason for taking this ability away from kids wouldn’t it make sense to take away everyone else’s ability to put in for every species?

No, because actual hunters who are licensed can legally hunt all species. A three year old cannot.

A 3 year old isn't applying to hunt the species... A 3 year old would have the opportunity to keep up with the point creep.

Can it seriously be called "point creep" when we're talking about moose, sheep, and goat permits? I don't think so. These permits are so few in number that using the point system never should have happened with these permits in the first place. I think perhaps the fairest thing to do to "fix" this problem, would be to no longer square the points. So a person with 20 points only gets 20 chances in the draw instead of 400. That would be even better for new hunters than the ability to accumulate a few points before they're even old enough to hunt.

I am agreement with you that the system needs to be fixed but we aren't discussing fixing the system we are discussing keeping the same system and eliminating one groups ability to accumulate points.

Okay, but points are for those who apply for a hunt and are unsuccessful in drawing that hunt. It was never intended for children to begin accumulating points from the day they are born. That it was possible was a mistske that has now been fixed.

It has been 23 years of leaving that door open, correct? now it needs changed?

People who apply for ghost points are not applying for a hunt and are still rewarded with a point.

We will have to agree to disagree.

[wannabhntr]

I know I'll get flamed for this but I'm all for this.  I witnessed many 3 and 4 year olds in camps up near Republic many years ago with 2  does hanging and you can't tell me they were capable of shooting a high powered rifle that can kill a deer.  Sorry.  Dad was killing all the does.

I may be going out on a limb here, but those 3 and 4 year olds you saw more than likely have not passed hunters ed. There for they can not have hunting licenses. There for they can not have deer tags. Ever thought that maybe the adults had second deer or doe tags. Disabled maybe?

[blackveltbowhunter]

   How any one can argue its a "good" change or "bad" change is beyond me. Its simply A change. The impact of this in the grand scheme is so small, I fail to see the emotion.

   In full disclosure I have 3 kids all have at least one point in each category. But none have even close to what they could have. I am not religious about it. I figured if and when they decide to hunt it might be a fun fact for them to know they have a point or two. That should they decide to hunt, I have daydreamed about it since they were little.  I have no belief WHATSOEVER that it will aid in their decision to hunt or not hunt. Thats entirely up to them and myself ( or parents in general). In the same token I don't believe that if I was faithful to the permit process it would increase their chances enough for me to be concerned about it. So I never have been.

   I am curious if any non qualified applicant has ever actually been selected? I would assume that any parent who has done the little research needed to actually commit to applying would realize that they still couldn't purchase a tag I have never entered anything but points option for them. Perhaps I am wrong in that assumption? In that case I am all for it. I would think even if somehow a non qualified applicant drew, that they would be ineligible for the tag purchase and it would simply go to an alternate. Same as failure to buy.

  The argument that points are reserved for those who want to hunt but fail to draw is weak. Their is points options in every category. That option should go away IMO. Apply for what you want to hunt. I know of lots of guys who draw antlerless tags and dont hunt them, or build points and then water down odds for those who would hunt them. IT is the game, I dont like the rules, and am all for changing them, but I would rather see a wiping of points and reduction in categories rather than this miniscule change.

[ryanj]

Youth hunting should be about the kids, getting them interested in hunting and keeping them interested. too many selfish people who don't want to see a kid with a good tag !