Do you agree with "hunters" ??

[WAcoyotehunter]

I agree with 3, 6, 7, 9 and 10.

I do not equate hunting and gun ownership.  I do think its time to figure out a way to keep people from shooting up crowds so effectively.

I also think there is major irony with groups that steadfastly support the Blue Lives matter and veterans causes and argue that we need guns to protect ourselves from the government.  Who exactly do you think you'll be shooting at when the "government" comes??  Probably cops and military personnel.... 

[pianoman9701]

I agree with 3, 6, 7, 9 and 10.

I do not equate hunting and gun ownership.  I do think its time to figure out a way to keep people from shooting up crowds so effectively.

I also think there is major irony with groups that steadfastly support the Blue Lives matter and veterans causes and argue that we need guns to protect ourselves from the government.  Who exactly do you think you'll be shooting at when the "government" comes??  Probably cops and military personnel....

If you take away the tool, they'll find another tool if they want to kill large numbers of people. Some use trucks, some use their families. There's no way to stop someone bent on killing a large number of people. But there is an existing way to end their rampage - armed citizens.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/asia/indonesia-attacks-surabaya-intl/index.html

[Fl0und3rz]

I do think its time to figure out a way to keep people from shooting up crowds so effectively.

Understanding the problem is the first step.  If we continue to treat such shooting the same as terror, as gang violence, as murders or attempted murders coincident with other crimes, then we will never be able to adequately address the problem.  It seems we are starting to make headway here.

Otherwise, without solid, no-BS, no ulterior motive, failure mode analysis in the wake of such shootings, we are doomed to repeat them.  For instance, Parkland was a massive LE failure top to bottom, brought on by a touchy-feely bureaucratic decision to not prosecute law breaking in order to pad the stats for diversity sake (Promise program).  It was a systematic failure that deserves to be widely and resoundingly demonized as wrong-headed and directly and foreseeably linked to the Parkland murders, such that we do not continue such policies and repeat the same costly mistakes.

Are we?  I haven't seen enough publicity or movement on the same. 

[Oh Mah]

I agree with 3, 6, 7, 9 and 10.

I do not equate hunting and gun ownership.  I do think its time to figure out a way to keep people from shooting up crowds so effectively.

I also think there is major irony with groups that steadfastly support the Blue Lives matter and veterans causes and argue that we need guns to protect ourselves from the government.  Who exactly do you think you'll be shooting at when the "government" comes??  Probably cops and military personnel....

The problem with this thought is simple,"PROBABLY COPS AND MILITARY" But from what country?This has been openly brought up by some in Gov. in the recent past.It makes a very valid argument for the 2nd. which has also been openly brought up in the very recent past.

[Oh Mah]

The first step to stopping this(mass shootings) would be the very gov. talking about taking rights away actually doing something when they know something.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I do think its time to figure out a way to keep people from shooting up crowds so effectively.

Understanding the problem is the first step.  If we continue to treat such shooting the same as terror, as gang violence, as murders or attempted murders coincident with other crimes, then we will never be able to adequately address the problem.  It seems we are starting to make headway here.

Otherwise, without solid, no-BS, no ulterior motive, failure mode analysis in the wake of such shootings, we are doomed to repeat them.  For instance, Parkland was a massive LE failure top to bottom, brought on by a touchy-feely bureaucratic decision to not prosecute law breaking in order to pad the stats for diversity sake (Promise program).  It was a systematic failure that deserves to be widely and resoundingly demonized as wrong-headed and directly and foreseeably linked to the Parkland murders, such that we do not continue such policies and repeat the same costly mistakes.

Are we?  I haven't seen enough publicity or movement on the same. 

I agree with most of that.  Guns are just to tool, there are other ways for people bent on killing to get the job done.  So what is the problem?  Mass shooters tend to fit into a category- middle class white male; here is an entire forum dominated by that group- we should be able to pinpoint the issue right???

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-fight-against-hate/201802/mass-shootings-what-role-do-guns-play

[pianoman9701]

Oh Mah is making good points. Two recent shootings could've been stopped if the police got creative and followed up on their leads about the crazies who committed them, not to mention actually going after the shooter once they arrived on the scene. And instead of singing Kumbaya after every shooting, why don't we insist that they start improving building and personnel security in schools and large venues before the next ones happen?

The politicians have been pointing their fingers at the tools for so long, the obvious solutions and preventative measures are being completely ignored.

[Special T]

They won't be going door to door confiscating guns. They will follow Hawaii's lead and start arresting and searching peoples homes with medical MJ cards, or those whom visit Weed dispensaries. Additionally they will go after veterans with PTSD... I belive it is why there was a push to have those leaving the service to claim it for "The benifits". Retired veterans have the knowledge and skills to resist the wholesale confiscation... Which is why its important to watch how left leaning states act.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Fl0und3rz]

I do think its time to figure out a way to keep people from shooting up crowds so effectively.

Understanding the problem is the first step.  If we continue to treat such shooting the same as terror, as gang violence, as murders or attempted murders coincident with other crimes, then we will never be able to adequately address the problem.  It seems we are starting to make headway here.

Otherwise, without solid, no-BS, no ulterior motive, failure mode analysis in the wake of such shootings, we are doomed to repeat them.  For instance, Parkland was a massive LE failure top to bottom, brought on by a touchy-feely bureaucratic decision to not prosecute law breaking in order to pad the stats for diversity sake (Promise program).  It was a systematic failure that deserves to be widely and resoundingly demonized as wrong-headed and directly and foreseeably linked to the Parkland murders, such that we do not continue such policies and repeat the same costly mistakes.

Are we?  I haven't seen enough publicity or movement on the same. 

I agree with most of that.  Guns are just to tool, there are other ways for people bent on killing to get the job done.  So what is the problem?  Mass shooters tend to fit into a category- middle class white male; here is an entire forum dominated by that group- we should be able to pinpoint the issue right???

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-fight-against-hate/201802/mass-shootings-what-role-do-guns-play

I forget where I put it in off-topics, but there was a post about specifically studying mass shooters as uniquely motivated individuals (not gang, terror, etc.) to determine their causes.   Until recently, the data had been aggregated with other murders to pad the stats for obvious political reasons.  It appears this part is changing. 

Since Columbine, it appears that being social outcast is one common link.  Another is prescribed meds.  Another is lack of father/family or loneliness.

I'll try and find some of those links.

[DaveMonti]

I do think its time to figure out a way to keep people from shooting up crowds so effectively.

Understanding the problem is the first step.  If we continue to treat such shooting the same as terror, as gang violence, as murders or attempted murders coincident with other crimes, then we will never be able to adequately address the problem.  It seems we are starting to make headway here.

Otherwise, without solid, no-BS, no ulterior motive, failure mode analysis in the wake of such shootings, we are doomed to repeat them.  For instance, Parkland was a massive LE failure top to bottom, brought on by a touchy-feely bureaucratic decision to not prosecute law breaking in order to pad the stats for diversity sake (Promise program).  It was a systematic failure that deserves to be widely and resoundingly demonized as wrong-headed and directly and foreseeably linked to the Parkland murders, such that we do not continue such policies and repeat the same costly mistakes.

Are we?  I haven't seen enough publicity or movement on the same.

As someone who frequently conducts structured failure mode analysis using proven RCA techniques, I'm curious to where the report is for the RCA of the Parkland incident is that shows the failure modes you state immediately following your statement, especially the one that says one of the causes is the "touchy-feely bureaucratic decision" and statistic padding.   

[optic2]

No, we already have gun laws that aren't even being enforced. Criminals don't care about laws. Every time you bring up a place like Chicago the gun grabbers want to change the subject.

[Fl0und3rz]

Otherwise, without solid, no-BS, no ulterior motive, failure mode analysis in the wake of such shootings, we are doomed to repeat them.  For instance, Parkland was a massive LE failure top to bottom, brought on by a touchy-feely bureaucratic decision to not prosecute law breaking in order to pad the stats for diversity sake (Promise program).  It was a systematic failure that deserves to be widely and resoundingly demonized as wrong-headed and directly and foreseeably linked to the Parkland murders, such that we do not continue such policies and repeat the same costly mistakes.

Are we?  I haven't seen enough publicity or movement on the same.

As someone who frequently conducts structured failure mode analysis using proven RCA techniques, I'm curious to where the report is for the RCA of the Parkland incident is that shows the failure modes you state immediately following your statement, especially the one that says one of the causes is the "touchy-feely bureaucratic decision" and statistic padding.   

There is not one, which is my point.

So we are left with our own opinions based on available facts as to causes and possibilities of preventing the shooting at the various stages of Cruz' descent to mass murder.   

If you have particular opinions you wish to discuss, regarding the known facts and/or the reasonableness of that opinion, I would gladly have that in off topics in the Florida shooter thread.  You should be aware of the Obama DOJ Promise program (and its goals), the desired and actual effect it had generally on the stats for Broward, the effect that it had on the culture of LE regarding formerly enforced criminal acts, generally, and regarding Cruz, specifically, and the final LE failures that lead to the predictable, IMO, final act that resulted from the continued and desired failure of LE to enforce the law.