Chain saw Mods?

[T-Dozzer]

Bought a used chainsaw (stihl MS 461) that I plan on milling with. Before I do, I would like to have it gone through and have atleast some exhuast work done. Maybe more?
Anyone know of a good place somewhat close to North Bend?
It has a few recalls on it so my local dealer will handle that fix first. They wont do modification obviously so I would rather who ever I find to do it, also gives it a check over.

Thanks

[Dale Gribble]

Harper lumber in Roslyn. They have a saw shop in the back, can’t remember his name but the guy that works in there can build one hell of a saw.

[T-Dozzer]

Harper lumber in Roslyn. They have a saw shop in the back, can’t remember his name but the guy that works in there can build one hell of a saw.

Thanks

[BigGoonTuna]

you may have to do some convincing, saw modding is illegal per the EPA and if stihl NW finds out a shop is doing it, they'll threaten to pull their dealership.

i hated modifying saws, i would shave the flywheel key to advance the timing a little, open up the intake and polish the exhaust, and restore the muffler dump size to the "original" 044 size(they choked the hell out of them in later models).  after all that, nobody would buy them unless i added the original 046 front plate and hogged out the other side of the muffler for a husky baffle.  all noise and no go, but as long as it was louder than their buddy's, that's all that mattered.  just to prove that, i quit doing the cylinder work and just gutted the mufflers...nobody ever complained.

[JWEBB]

you may have to do some convincing, saw modding is illegal per the EPA and if stihl NW finds out a shop is doing it, they'll threaten to pull their dealership.

i hated modifying saws, i would shave the flywheel key to advance the timing a little, open up the intake and polish the exhaust, and restore the muffler dump size to the "original" 044 size(they choked the hell out of them in later models).  after all that, nobody would buy them unless i added the original 046 front plate and hogged out the other side of the muffler for a husky baffle.  all noise and no go, but as long as it was louder than their buddy's, that's all that mattered.  just to prove that, i quit doing the cylinder work and just gutted the mufflers...nobody ever complained.

Wow! I come from a long line of loggers. Never knew modding was illegal. Seems like there could be more important things to focus on

[syoungs]

muffler mod and a good tuning is all I do to mine. run great, but they get loud.
eventually I may try my hand at doing some porting work, ive got a couple old cheap saws that I can practice on, but for my bigger saws I haven't ever felt that it is needed. (im not a logger though, and don't make money with my saws)

[jackmaster]

Gut the muffler is about all you want to do and lean your mix out just a tad, change your plug regularly and get the right chain for milling, I mill with my saw on occasion and mostly I just use a semi skip chisel chain, it works well but it still plugs up, especially when your ripping the length and pulling noodles, I think they actually make a chain that pulls chips instead of noodles when your running the length !!

[syoungs]

they do make that chain for milling that will pull chips, or you can grind an old chain to do the same, though that is time consuming for sure.

[T-Dozzer]

Gut the muffler is about all you want to do and lean your mix out just a tad, change your plug regularly and get the right chain for milling, I mill with my saw on occasion and mostly I just use a semi skip chisel chain, it works well but it still plugs up, especially when your ripping the length and pulling noodles, I think they actually make a chain that pulls chips instead of noodles when your running the length !!

Granberg makes a ripping chain.
You lean your mix out for ripping? ive always heard to go more rich since milling is tough on saws.
Whats your setup?

[BeerBugler]

HD air filter setup, DP muffler and tune. That’s the most bang for your buck. After that your cost/gain ratio falls off. 046 is a great saw but your still going to be limited on your log size for milling 24” or so? Granberg chain makes a nice smooth cut but it’s expensive and takes time to sharpen. Baileys ripping chain doesn’t provide as smooth of cut but cuts fast,sharpens fast and fairly cheap. I’m selling a 288xp (good milling saw) pm me if interested. Make sure you turn your bar oil output up when milling.

[BigGoonTuna]

You can make a decent rip chain by taking a semi chisel skip chain and grinding the teeth at a 10* angle instead of the usual 30*.

I believe it was the 2011? EPA regs that banned modifying small engines outside of sanctioned racing events, im sure they'd never go after a guy doing it in his garage, but risky for a big shop.  Technically you aren't even supposed to be able to own carb adjusting tools, and a bunch of other stupid stuff like that.  Big brother at work...

[T-Dozzer]

HD air filter setup, DP muffler and tune. That’s the most bang for your buck. After that your cost/gain ratio falls off. 046 is a great saw but your still going to be limited on your log size for milling 24” or so? Granberg chain makes a nice smooth cut but it’s expensive and takes time to sharpen. Baileys ripping chain doesn’t provide as smooth of cut but cuts fast,sharpens fast and fairly cheap. I’m selling a 288xp (good milling saw) pm me if interested. Make sure you turn your bar oil output up when milling.

Yeah, air in/out was pretty much all Im after. Along with a compression check etc...
The saw came with a 32" bar, but I planned on using around a 25" bar for milling. I'll probably just go with the 30" alaskan mill.
Learning as I go...

[jackmaster]

Gut the muffler is about all you want to do and lean your mix out just a tad, change your plug regularly and get the right chain for milling, I mill with my saw on occasion and mostly I just use a semi skip chisel chain, it works well but it still plugs up, especially when your ripping the length and pulling noodles, I think they actually make a chain that pulls chips instead of noodles when your running the length !!

Granberg makes a ripping chain.
You lean your mix out for ripping? ive always heard to go more rich since milling is tough on saws.
Whats your setup?

i use my 039 with a 26" bar and I also use a 28" bar, if I am doing big wood I use a 066 power head with the same size bars as my small saw , yes I lean it it out, but my saws are broke in really well!! And what I mean by leaning it out is I mix my gas at 2 to 1 and I use super unleaded , I do not like my saw to bog down the more it bogs down seems to cause the bar to wander but that could be just me ..

[Knocker of rocks]

you may have to do some convincing, saw modding is illegal per the EPA and if stihl NW finds out a shop is doing it, they'll threaten to pull their dealership.

I can't find any legal document stating that modifications by end users or their agents is illegal.  Stihl NW may prohibit their authorized shops from doing it because they are leary of a legal entanglement, but I can find nothing that legally prevents an owner or independent shop from doing such work.

These saws are cool

[Bob33]

Interesting 

https://www.forconstructionpros.com/rental/article/10708101/educate-yourself-about-epa-standards-for-small-gasoline-engines

What can’t be done

With these new standards in place, it’s no surprise that some things now can’t or shouldn’t be done with generators and other small-engine equipment.

First and foremost, don’t tamper or attempt to modify engines designed to meet EPA standards. Not only is it illegal and comes with civil penalties, but it can cause a host of problems. For example, removing an engine’s vapor control valves presents a fire hazard and can cause liquid fuel in the vapor system to severely damage the carbon canister.

Knowingly disabling an emission control system component, from tweaking the fuel or exhaust system to altering the engine’s performance, will violate the EPA regulations. Installing a part that differs from that originally on an engine that meets EPA standards also may bring penalties for tampering.

[T-Dozzer]

Lol...  good grief.

[Special T]

And I'm sure everyone always follows the speed limit also... lol the only good thing is there is no real way to enforce this crap.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[jay.sharkbait]

Remove head gasket and just go with Dirko. Lightly port intake and exhaust and gut muffler.

And run the shortest bar possible.

The EPA would lose their minds if they knew what I've done to my car.

[Knocker of rocks]

https://www.epa.gov/regulations-emissions-vehicles-and-engines/regulations-emissions-small-equipment-tools

Looks like most of is applicable to manufacturers and parts suppliers. I can’t find the part where it says what the “or else” is in relation to modifications by end users. I can see why shops are leery of doing such tasks.

[T-Dozzer]

Remove head gasket and just go with Dirko. Lightly port intake and exhaust and gut muffler.

And run the shortest bar possible.

The EPA would lose their minds if they knew what I've done to my car.

This just in- a multi agency federal task force conduct a late night search warrant on the residence of Jay sharkbait for possible saw altercations. 

[Bob33]

Remove head gasket and just go with Dirko. Lightly port intake and exhaust and gut muffler.

And run the shortest bar possible.

The EPA would lose their minds if they knew what I've done to my car.

This just in- a multi agency federal task force conduct a late night search warrant on the residence of Jay sharkbait for possible saw altercations. 

Altercations? Who assaulted whom?

[T-Dozzer]

Remove head gasket and just go with Dirko. Lightly port intake and exhaust and gut muffler.

And run the shortest bar possible.

The EPA would lose their minds if they knew what I've done to my car.

This just in- a multi agency federal task force conduct a late night search warrant on the residence of Jay sharkbait for possible saw altercations. 

Altercations? Who assaulted whom?


** alterations** now they can get me on the saw and a typo.

[Bob33]

Remove head gasket and just go with Dirko. Lightly port intake and exhaust and gut muffler.

And run the shortest bar possible.

The EPA would lose their minds if they knew what I've done to my car.

This just in- a multi agency federal task force conduct a late night search warrant on the residence of Jay sharkbait for possible saw altercations. 

Altercations? Who assaulted whom?


** alterations** now they can get me on the saw and a typo.

The typo police are the wurst.

[jay.sharkbait]

Remove head gasket and just go with Dirko. Lightly port intake and exhaust and gut muffler.

And run the shortest bar possible.

The EPA would lose their minds if they knew what I've done to my car.

This just in- a multi agency federal task force conduct a late night search warrant on the residence of Jay sharkbait for possible saw altercations. 

Never

They'll roll me up at a 7-11 buying beer and pepperoni sticks.....


#theyknowhowioperate

[Thehowler]

This threads to funny, Hiding my chainsaws now.

[timberfaller]

  as long as it meets USFS regulations, a chain saw can be used in the forest OR it was that way the last time I was out there!

Spark arrested, fire extinguisher, #2 shovel.

Newer saws are already "revved up",  if you are going to mill with a saw you'll need low end torque(pulling wood power).

Madsen's   was the last place I knew of that hopped up saws. 

Good luck!

[j_h_nimrod]

HD air filter setup, DP muffler and tune. That’s the most bang for your buck. After that your cost/gain ratio falls off. 046 is a great saw but your still going to be limited on your log size for milling 24” or so? Granberg chain makes a nice smooth cut but it’s expensive and takes time to sharpen. Baileys ripping chain doesn’t provide as smooth of cut but cuts fast,sharpens fast and fairly cheap. I’m selling a 288xp (good milling saw) pm me if interested. Make sure you turn your bar oil output up when milling.

Yeah, air in/out was pretty much all Im after. Along with a compression check etc...
The saw came with a 32" bar, but I planned on using around a 25" bar for milling. I'll probably just go with the 30" alaskan mill.
Learning as I go...

I used a pretty stock 046 with 32” bar for years and had good luck milling.  I would recommend going with the 36” mill frame though, I always found bigger wood I wanted to cut and the longer mill runs fine with shorter bars.

If you leave your bucking spikes on the saw about the biggest wood you will be able to cut with a 25” bar is 18”, you lose about 4” for the front and another 2-3” at the rear. Removing the spikes will gain you ~1.5”.

Keep an eye on your bar rails and invest in a rail dresser or learn to clean them up with a file. Milling is rough on a bar and has a tendency to start making your rails wear unevenly and then your cuts go to crap and it is a fight. Also a small burr on the edge of the rail can almost stop your progress and make you pissed until you figure out that little burr is catching wood in the kerf.

It is a lot of fun, good luck!

[T-Dozzer]

I knew I would lose some bar length, but though it was closer to 2".
Great info, thank you.

[Alchase]

Remove head gasket and just go with Dirko. Lightly port intake and exhaust and gut muffler.

And run the shortest bar possible.

The EPA would lose their minds if they knew what I've done to my car.

This just in- a multi agency federal task force conduct a late night search warrant on the residence of Jay sharkbait for possible saw altercations. 

Never

They'll roll me up at a 7-11 buying beer and pepperoni sticks.....


#theyknowhowioperate

Man, I am jonesing for a Oh Boy Oberto beef stick, can't find them here in OKC

 

[j_h_nimrod]

I knew I would lose some bar length, but though it was closer to 2".
Great info, thank you.

I just went and measured mine, 36” bar on a 660 with spikes in place and I am at 28” cut width.

[T-Dozzer]

I knew I would lose some bar length, but though it was closer to 2".
Great info, thank you.

I just went and measured mine, 36” bar on a 660 with spikes in place and I am at 28” cut width.

Alright Ill go with the 36" on the granberg.
I have a beat up 044 with a 36" bar as a back up saw. Still not sure if my 461 can pull off the 32" bar I have for it. What do you think? I planned on buying a 25" lightweight bar as well.
I ordered a chainguide dresser.

A buddy told me to look up a shop called  "westcoast saws" for any work. Not sure on their details.
Appreciate your feedback

[j_h_nimrod]

We used an 046 with a 32” bar for years cutting cured yellow cedar and had no issues.  Keep the chain sharp and adjust your rate of cut so you can keep the saw pretty wound up. Make sure the Oiler is maxed as others have said. If you are needing to push hard to get it to cut then stop and try to figure out the issue, it should cut with no more than moderate pressure needed.

Milling chains are typically at least semi-skip, ground at ~5* across the cutter, and usually have a shallower raker depth (.045 vs .060 IIRC). They make more of a dust than a chip and produce a smoother plank without as much wastage, narrows your kerf by about 3/32” which adds up on the amount of sawdust and gains you a bit if you are trying to cut thin boards.

Use wedges on longer cuts to keep pressure of the back side teeth, not sure if it really matters but I have always done it anyway.

Best cutting I ever did was a 4” thick x maximum width (~25”) yellow cedar slab ~40’ long. I’ll have to see if I can find the pictures.

[T-Dozzer]

Sounds like you have some experience under your belt. Thanks for sharing!

[LG]

Scott was the guy at harpers in Roslyn, he retired. I haven’t run one but putting a 460 coil on those 461’s is supposed to make a big difference. Also with those light bars when you’re bucking it is a lot harder to match up your cuts than with a standard Oregon bar, I don’t know if you would have the same problem milling or not.

[T-Dozzer]

Scott was the guy at harpers in Roslyn, he retired. I haven’t run one but putting a 460 coil on those 461’s is supposed to make a big difference. Also with those light bars when you’re bucking it is a lot harder to match up your cuts than with a standard Oregon bar, I don’t know if you would have the same problem milling or not.

Spoke to a guy down at westcoast saws. He recommended only putting on a dual port muffler plate to reduce heat and not do anything else as it could increase heat in saw. Makes it easy for me.

[T-Dozzer]

HD air filter setup, DP muffler and tune. That’s the most bang for your buck. After that your cost/gain ratio falls off. 046 is a great saw but your still going to be limited on your log size for milling 24” or so? Granberg chain makes a nice smooth cut but it’s expensive and takes time to sharpen. Baileys ripping chain doesn’t provide as smooth of cut but cuts fast,sharpens fast and fairly cheap. I’m selling a 288xp (good milling saw) pm me if interested. Make sure you turn your bar oil output up when milling.

Yeah, air in/out was pretty much all Im after. Along with a compression check etc...
The saw came with a 32" bar, but I planned on using around a 25" bar for milling. I'll probably just go with the 30" alaskan mill.
Learning as I go...

I used a pretty stock 046 with 32” bar for years and had good luck milling.  I would recommend going with the 36” mill frame though, I always found bigger wood I wanted to cut and the longer mill runs fine with shorter bars.

If you leave your bucking spikes on the saw about the biggest wood you will be able to cut with a 25” bar is 18”, you lose about 4” for the front and another 2-3” at the rear. Removing the spikes will gain you ~1.5”.

Keep an eye on your bar rails and invest in a rail dresser or learn to clean them up with a file. Milling is rough on a bar and has a tendency to start making your rails wear unevenly and then your cuts go to crap and it is a fight. Also a small burr on the edge of the rail can almost stop your progress and make you pissed until you figure out that little burr is catching wood in the kerf.

It is a lot of fun, good luck!

That rail dresser is nice. Cleaned up 4  bars last night.