Cougar Attack Highlights Shortage of WDFW Officers

[bigtex]

Might be nice if WDFW didn't have their officers doing things pertaining to fish & wildlife issues and not writing parking or other no related WDFW issues.

About 3 or 4 months ago a friend and I were having lunch at the Tokyo House in Arlington. About half way into our lunch a wdfw officer came in to look through the Tokyo House's fish receipts. Couldn't the state find someone else to do that, why does it have to be a guy that should be out in the woods or on the water.

So I guess you're saying it's okay if the restaurant got the fish from illegal areas it's okay because it's in the restaurant now?

What the WDFW Officer did is what game wardens do in every state. Game wardens protect fish/wildlife from essentially the birth of the animal (and really even before then with habitat laws) to the total destruction of the animal (eaten by us).

Uuhh, did I say it was okay, no, you're a real wizard for reading into thinking I support illegal activity . I just said couldn't they find different personnel to solely perform that task and keep those officers outside.

That's part of a game wardens job! It's not like they're doing health inspector jobs making sure people got their food workers card. I suppose you'd also say wardens shouldn't be checking in on taxidermists either?

Fish receipts are a vital part of the marine division's job. In fact, it's in the fish and wildlife enforcement code.

[olyguy79]

Might be nice if WDFW didn't have their officers doing things pertaining to fish & wildlife issues and not writing parking or other no related WDFW issues.

About 3 or 4 months ago a friend and I were having lunch at the Tokyo House in Arlington. About half way into our lunch a wdfw officer came in to look through the Tokyo House's fish receipts. Couldn't the state find someone else to do that, why does it have to be a guy that should be out in the woods or on the water.

So I guess you're saying it's okay if the restaurant got the fish from illegal areas it's okay because it's in the restaurant now?

What the WDFW Officer did is what game wardens do in every state. Game wardens protect fish/wildlife from essentially the birth of the animal (and really even before then with habitat laws) to the total destruction of the animal (eaten by us).

Uuhh, did I say it was okay, no, you're a real wizard for reading into thinking I support illegal activity . I just said couldn't they find different personnel to solely perform that task and keep those officers outside.

That's part of a game wardens job! It's not like they're doing health inspector jobs making sure people got their food workers card. I suppose you'd also say wardens shouldn't be checking in on taxidermists either?

Nope, not saying that either...

So explain to me what is the difference between an officer going into a restaurant to make sure the fish were obtained legally, and going into a taxidermist to make sure the fish/wildlife were obtained legally?

[Southpole]

So, who goes into non sushi type restaurants to make sure the restaurant is buying usda/wda certified beef, pork, chicken, lamb, etc...

[bearpaw]

WDFW doesn't need more officers to more effectively manage predators.  Officers are only going to help AFTER someone has been chewed on. 

Frankly, if they don't start focusing on issues important to hunters and anglers they are going to find out what real budget problems look like. 

  Right there, that is already a problem and it's getting worse. Hunters and fishers are fed up with WDFW management. If I was the director and commission I would seriously be looking at what to do to please my customers!  "IN A NUTSHELL" that is one of the most important issues that should be addressed!

[bigtex]

WDFW doesn't need more officers to more effectively manage predators.  Officers are only going to help AFTER someone has been chewed on. 

Frankly, if they don't start focusing on issues important to hunters and anglers they are going to find out what real budget problems look like. 

Right there, that is already a problem and it's getting worse. Hunters and fishers are fed up with WDFW management. If I was the director and commission I would seriously be looking at what to do to please my customers!  "IN A NUTSHELL" that is one of the most important issues that should be addressed!

I'm going to get heat for this but oh well. I hear all the time that people are going to quit hunting/fishing, or they already have in a way to "show it to the man." Well I'm here to tell you guys it's not working. Over the past 10 years the number of WDFW licenses sold flux up/down 1-2% a year, that's it. Some years they go up, typically corresponding with large salmon fisheries such as the pink salmon run in the Puget Sound.

The main issue isn't that the numbers of licenses sold is crashing significantly. The issue is WDFW isn't getting the general fund support they used to, and an issue we all know is that money doesn't go as far as it once did. A hundred bucks in 2018 doesn't go as far as it did in 2010, 2005, or 1995. The cost of operations are going up, but the funding isn't, that's the overall problem.

[bearpaw]

WDFW doesn't need more officers to more effectively manage predators.  Officers are only going to help AFTER someone has been chewed on. 

Frankly, if they don't start focusing on issues important to hunters and anglers they are going to find out what real budget problems look like. 

Right there, that is already a problem and it's getting worse. Hunters and fishers are fed up with WDFW management. If I was the director and commission I would seriously be looking at what to do to please my customers!  "IN A NUTSHELL" that is one of the most important issues that should be addressed!

I'm going to get heat for this but oh well. I hear all the time that people are going to quit hunting/fishing, or they already have in a way to "show it to the man." Well I'm here to tell you guys it's not working. Over the past 10 years the number of WDFW licenses sold flux up/down 1-2% a year, that's it. Some years they go up, typically corresponding with large salmon fisheries such as the pink salmon run in the Puget Sound.

The main issue isn't that the numbers of licenses sold is crashing significantly. The issue is WDFW isn't getting the general fund support they used to, and an issue we all know is that money doesn't go as far as it once did. A hundred bucks in 2018 doesn't go as far as it did in 2010, 2005, or 1995. The cost of operations are going up, but the funding isn't, that's the overall problem.

I'm not giving you heat  but I do want to reply to your points. The commission created numerous additional avenues of revenue with all the additional permit applications. This should have increased revenue substantially, instead as you say it has only fluctuated 1%-2%, this tells me they are losing customers in other areas or the increase would be greater. 

If you aren't keeping up with your budget you are losing!

[olyguy79]

WDFW doesn't need more officers to more effectively manage predators.  Officers are only going to help AFTER someone has been chewed on. 

Frankly, if they don't start focusing on issues important to hunters and anglers they are going to find out what real budget problems look like. 

Right there, that is already a problem and it's getting worse. Hunters and fishers are fed up with WDFW management. If I was the director and commission I would seriously be looking at what to do to please my customers!  "IN A NUTSHELL" that is one of the most important issues that should be addressed!

I'm going to get heat for this but oh well. I hear all the time that people are going to quit hunting/fishing, or they already have in a way to "show it to the man." Well I'm here to tell you guys it's not working. Over the past 10 years the number of WDFW licenses sold flux up/down 1-2% a year, that's it. Some years they go up, typically corresponding with large salmon fisheries such as the pink salmon run in the Puget Sound.

The main issue isn't that the numbers of licenses sold is crashing significantly. The issue is WDFW isn't getting the general fund support they used to, and an issue we all know is that money doesn't go as far as it once did. A hundred bucks in 2018 doesn't go as far as it did in 2010, 2005, or 1995. The cost of operations are going up, but the funding isn't, that's the overall problem.

I'm not giving you heat  but I do want to reply to your points. The commission created numerous additional avenues of revenue with all the additional permit applications. This should have increased revenue substantially, instead as you say it has only fluctuated 1%-2%, this tells me they are losing customers in other areas or the increase would be greater. 

If you aren't keeping up with your budget you are losing!

"This should have increased revenue substantially"

I completely disagree. A bunch (yes I know it's probably thousands) of $7 application fees isn't going to fix a multi-million dollar problem. WDFW's looking at a 25 million dollar cut starting July 2019. A 25 million dollar cut would be the equivalent of nearly dissolving the entire wildlife or enforcement divisions within WDFW. WDFW would need about 115,000 new people to purchase the new "fish Washington", big game combo w/ small game, turkey, and migratory bird to cover that deficit. Obviously that's not going to happen either.

As someone who works on budgets in the legislature I can tell you that if the legislature keeps to their promise of continuing to decrease the amount of general fund money, and not continue the one-time disbursement of general fund money they did in 2018, WDFW will be neutered starting in July 2019. Quite simply, a increase in license fees isn't going to fix it either. A 25M cut is huge. WDFW lands will no longer be maintained how they are, WDFW Officer slots will continue to go unfilled, some WDFW Officers may be laid off. It'll essentially be a new WDFW. If you're upset with how things are running now, it'll be worse starting July 2019.

[2MANY]

Losing is the expected outcome anymore when it comes to WDFW's resources.

[vandeman17]

WDFW doesn't need more officers to more effectively manage predators.  Officers are only going to help AFTER someone has been chewed on. 

Frankly, if they don't start focusing on issues important to hunters and anglers they are going to find out what real budget problems look like. 

Right there, that is already a problem and it's getting worse. Hunters and fishers are fed up with WDFW management. If I was the director and commission I would seriously be looking at what to do to please my customers!  "IN A NUTSHELL" that is one of the most important issues that should be addressed!

I'm going to get heat for this but oh well. I hear all the time that people are going to quit hunting/fishing, or they already have in a way to "show it to the man." Well I'm here to tell you guys it's not working. Over the past 10 years the number of WDFW licenses sold flux up/down 1-2% a year, that's it. Some years they go up, typically corresponding with large salmon fisheries such as the pink salmon run in the Puget Sound.

The main issue isn't that the numbers of licenses sold is crashing significantly. The issue is WDFW isn't getting the general fund support they used to, and an issue we all know is that money doesn't go as far as it once did. A hundred bucks in 2018 doesn't go as far as it did in 2010, 2005, or 1995. The cost of operations are going up, but the funding isn't, that's the overall problem.

Number of licenses flux 1-2% or cash generated because those are two completely separate things?

[bearpaw]

WDFW doesn't need more officers to more effectively manage predators.  Officers are only going to help AFTER someone has been chewed on. 

Frankly, if they don't start focusing on issues important to hunters and anglers they are going to find out what real budget problems look like. 

Right there, that is already a problem and it's getting worse. Hunters and fishers are fed up with WDFW management. If I was the director and commission I would seriously be looking at what to do to please my customers!  "IN A NUTSHELL" that is one of the most important issues that should be addressed!

I'm going to get heat for this but oh well. I hear all the time that people are going to quit hunting/fishing, or they already have in a way to "show it to the man." Well I'm here to tell you guys it's not working. Over the past 10 years the number of WDFW licenses sold flux up/down 1-2% a year, that's it. Some years they go up, typically corresponding with large salmon fisheries such as the pink salmon run in the Puget Sound.

The main issue isn't that the numbers of licenses sold is crashing significantly. The issue is WDFW isn't getting the general fund support they used to, and an issue we all know is that money doesn't go as far as it once did. A hundred bucks in 2018 doesn't go as far as it did in 2010, 2005, or 1995. The cost of operations are going up, but the funding isn't, that's the overall problem.

I'm not giving you heat  but I do want to reply to your points. The commission created numerous additional avenues of revenue with all the additional permit applications. This should have increased revenue substantially, instead as you say it has only fluctuated 1%-2%, this tells me they are losing customers in other areas or the increase would be greater. 

If you aren't keeping up with your budget you are losing!

"This should have increased revenue substantially"

I completely disagree. A bunch (yes I know it's probably thousands) of $7 application fees isn't going to fix a multi-million dollar problem. WDFW's looking at a 25 million dollar cut starting July 2019. A 25 million dollar cut would be the equivalent of nearly dissolving the entire wildlife or enforcement divisions within WDFW. WDFW would need about 115,000 new people to purchase the new "fish Washington", big game combo w/ small game, turkey, and migratory bird to cover that deficit. Obviously that's not going to happen either.

As someone who works on budgets in the legislature I can tell you that if the legislature keeps to their promise of continuing to decrease the amount of general fund money, and not continue the one-time disbursement of general fund money they did in 2018, WDFW will be neutered starting in July 2019. Quite simply, a increase in license fees isn't going to fix it either. A 25M cut is huge. WDFW lands will no longer be maintained how they are, WDFW Officer slots will continue to go unfilled, some WDFW Officers may be laid off. It'll essentially be a new WDFW. If you're upset with how things are running now, it'll be worse starting July 2019.

Just to clarify I didn't say it would fix their whole budget.  I said they are losing when they should be gaining more, let's just be clear on what is actually being said! 

To address your points, they are losing more significantly by ignoring their customers because I for one will not be calling my legislators asking them to give WDFW more money to waste on wolves. If anything I'm going to be telling my legislators to cut their funding until they start taking care of their customers! I'm willing to bet there are other customers who feel the same way. 

For the record, I have been very vocal with my legislators through the years!

[bearpaw]

WDFW doesn't need more officers to more effectively manage predators.  Officers are only going to help AFTER someone has been chewed on. 

Frankly, if they don't start focusing on issues important to hunters and anglers they are going to find out what real budget problems look like. 

Right there, that is already a problem and it's getting worse. Hunters and fishers are fed up with WDFW management. If I was the director and commission I would seriously be looking at what to do to please my customers!  "IN A NUTSHELL" that is one of the most important issues that should be addressed!

I'm going to get heat for this but oh well. I hear all the time that people are going to quit hunting/fishing, or they already have in a way to "show it to the man." Well I'm here to tell you guys it's not working. Over the past 10 years the number of WDFW licenses sold flux up/down 1-2% a year, that's it. Some years they go up, typically corresponding with large salmon fisheries such as the pink salmon run in the Puget Sound.

The main issue isn't that the numbers of licenses sold is crashing significantly. The issue is WDFW isn't getting the general fund support they used to, and an issue we all know is that money doesn't go as far as it once did. A hundred bucks in 2018 doesn't go as far as it did in 2010, 2005, or 1995. The cost of operations are going up, but the funding isn't, that's the overall problem.

I'm not giving you heat  but I do want to reply to your points. The commission created numerous additional avenues of revenue with all the additional permit applications. This should have increased revenue substantially, instead as you say it has only fluctuated 1%-2%, this tells me they are losing customers in other areas or the increase would be greater. 

If you aren't keeping up with your budget you are losing!

"This should have increased revenue substantially"

I completely disagree. A bunch (yes I know it's probably thousands) of $7 application fees isn't going to fix a multi-million dollar problem. WDFW's looking at a 25 million dollar cut starting July 2019. A 25 million dollar cut would be the equivalent of nearly dissolving the entire wildlife or enforcement divisions within WDFW. WDFW would need about 115,000 new people to purchase the new "fish Washington", big game combo w/ small game, turkey, and migratory bird to cover that deficit. Obviously that's not going to happen either.

As someone who works on budgets in the legislature I can tell you that if the legislature keeps to their promise of continuing to decrease the amount of general fund money, and not continue the one-time disbursement of general fund money they did in 2018, WDFW will be neutered starting in July 2019. Quite simply, a increase in license fees isn't going to fix it either. A 25M cut is huge. WDFW lands will no longer be maintained how they are, WDFW Officer slots will continue to go unfilled, some WDFW Officers may be laid off. It'll essentially be a new WDFW. If you're upset with how things are running now, it'll be worse starting July 2019.

Just to clarify I didn't say it would fix their whole budget.  I said they are losing when they should be gaining more, let's just be clear on what is actually being said! 

To address your points, they are losing more significantly by ignoring their customers because I for one will not be calling my legislators asking them to give WDFW more money to waste on wolves. If anything I'm going to be telling my legislators to cut their funding until they start taking care of their customers! I'm willing to bet there are other customers who feel the same way. 

For the record, I have been very vocal with my legislators through the years!

You know it's these types of frustrations that led to Trump getting elected. I can only hope things get so bad in WA that the west side people eventually react!

[bobcat]

If the WDFW budget is in such bad shape, how can they afford to spend 1.6 million dollars on a person to mediate the Wolf Advisory Group meetings? That is a totally unessential position that they could easily do without.

[boneaddict]

Its going to take a whole bunch more incidents and you can bet they will find a way to blame it on hunting

[Humptulips]

I would like to see a budget produced by WDFW that separated out things that do not directly benefit Sportsmen.
There are a great many things the Department does that while maybe important are something more properly a responsibility and benefit to the general public. The most glaring example being wolf recovery but includes all endangered species, boater safety, seafood enforcement checks like in the restaurant mentioned, hydraulic permits, etc.
Yea, I realize a lot of stuff like endangered species is covered by grants but most of that is through PR and DJ grants which come mostly from Sportsmen.
So often we get it thrown in our face about funding from the General fund and the anti groups are quick to say they are paying because of the General fund portion of the budget.
I would like to know where the money goes and if I am not actually paying my way happy to endorse an increase.
I think most everyone  balks at paying  for things they do not benefit from.

[pianoman9701]

Had they released some facts on hounding and baiting back in 1996, we'd be in a whole different place right now. They didn't have to take sides. But they shirked their duty regarding information about managing wildlife. As far as the number of officers is concerned, if the administration improved the reputation of enforcement and turned over top management levels, maybe more talent would show up to play. Who wants to work for a department that's unprofessional and has been shown to not support their wildlife officers in the field? I sure wouldn't.