bighorn conversion question

[elkonastick]

has anyone converted their knight bighorn to a 209 ignition? I am trying to order parts but the only thing I can find is the conversion kit for the plastic jacket. i just want a bare 209. any help w
ould be appreciated

[elkonastick]

okay so I just read from sabotloaders comment that the bare 209 breech was discontinued due to blowback safety issues.  does this mean that the fpj conversion is my only option if I would like to use a 209 primer?

[Sabotloader]

okay so I just read from sabotloaders comment that the bare 209 breech was discontinued due to blowback safety issues.  does this mean that the fpj conversion is my only option if I would like to use a 209 primer?

You might find one online at an auctions site but it really can be a safety factor when shooing the hotter powders like T7 and BH.


This is the results of shooting 100 grains of T7 from a bare primer MK-85.  And this was only a 100 grains of T7.  Because of the slower burning BH powder the problem is accentuated.





The primer can actually come apart in 3 separate pieces



The FPJ plug is or has deemed safer than the bare primer.  Although you could use one of the real BP's or Pyrodex powders.

No matter which you use the breech is going to get DIRTY...

I just ened up switching all of my percussion rifles back to #11 mag ignition.

[SteelheadDC]

yah, i kinda like my eyes.  My number 11 shoots just fine and seals really tight as far as moisture goes

[teanawayslayer]

yah, i kinda like my eyes.  My number 11 shoots just fine and seals really tight as far as moisture goes

. I won’t switch over. Maybe if they ever allow scopes I may switch

[Buck86]

Sabot loader has it correct. If you want to shoot 209 primers in your bighorn the only option really is the plastic jacket.  Honestly I do not see the need or improvement with them in a bighorn. That is the gun I have and I am sticking with the #11 caps. Once on they are as waterproof as a 209 in my opinion.  I have had them in some seriously wet conditions and the gun has always gone boom when I needed it to.

Good Luck
Buck

[elkonastick]

thank you all. I've been on the fence about this because I've never had a problem with  t7 and caps aside from at the range after 15 or 20 rounds with heavy windex swabs between shots and not pulling the breech. I figured I would try it and see for myself. but... if sabotloader is going to switch back from 209 to caps then I feel like I don't need to find out for myself.  sabotloader do you happen to have a part number for the no11 nipple you like? I've seen it in past posts but can't find it.

[Sabotloader]

thank you all. I've been on the fence about this because I've never had a problem with  t7 and caps aside from at the range after 15 or 20 rounds with heavy windex swabs between shots and not pulling the breech. I figured I would try it and see for myself. but... if sabotloader is going to switch back from 209 to caps then I feel like I don't need to find out for myself.  sabotloader do you happen to have a part number for the no11 nipple you like? I've seen it in past posts but can't find it.

Another advantage I think you will see... if you do not use any petroleum based oils in the bore, and you are shooting caps with T7 you will find you really do not have to run a patch after each shoot.  I have shot up to 15 shots without patching and i felt guilty so I patched afer the 15th shot. Still didn't get much but a black patch. 


I would also suggest you use just a slightly damp patch not a wet one... that eliminates the need of running a dry patch after running the damp patch..  This is how I make mine...



The nipple I would recommend right now is a Knight #11 nipple.  I believe Lehigh is making them for Knight.

[elkonastick]

thank you sabotloader. with the Hornady sst I don't swab between shots but with the bloodline it takes all I have to push a second round without a swab and a third is a no go even with a solid range rod. it gets so tough that when I hunt I've been loading up a bloodline and then my speedloads are sst so I don't have to swab in the field.

[elkonastick]

hmmm.... I only clean with 50/50 windex alcohol but I do use lite  t/c natural lube for storage do you think that has anything to do with that? I figured it was just a tight barrel

[Sabotloader]

thank you sabotloader. with the Hornady sst I don't swab between shots but with the bloodline it takes all I have to push a second round without a swab and a third is a no go even with a solid range rod. it gets so tough that when I hunt I've been loading up a bloodline and then my speedloads are sst so I don't have to swab in the field.

Which Bloodline are you using?  It really sounds like you might have a tight bore.

[Sabotloader]

hmmm.... I only clean with 50/50 windex alcohol but I do use lite  t/c natural lube for storage do you think that has anything to do with that? I figured it was just a tight barrel

The patching solution should really work well for you.  The natural lube I do question a little bit - it really shouldn't be necessary unless you are using it as bullet/sabot lubricant. But, I am assuming that you are using it as part of your cleaning and bore protection...

This pic is basically what I do/use for cleaning and protection... certainly doesn't mean that it is the only way... but I would really look for a non-petroleum bore oil such as Montana X-Treme Bore Conditioner or Slip 2000 lubrication as the alternative to the natural lube.



If you decide to go this way or try you do have some what of a problem in that you will need to flush all the TC lube out. of the bore.  That will take some time if you just shoot it out.  The easiest way to get 90% of it out is the old fashioned way.  A good hot water bath in a bucket with boiling water used as the final rinse.  Then a very quick dry of the bore either by blowing compressed air through the bore or several dry patches

Still thinking you might have a tight bore and you may need to do a JB bore paste treatment on it...

mike

[Sabotloader]

thank you sabotloader. with the Hornady sst I don't swab between shots but with the bloodline it takes all I have to push a second round without a swab and a third is a no go even with a solid range rod. it gets so tough that when I hunt I've been loading up a bloodline and then my speedloads are sst so I don't have to swab in the field.

OK - so I am just guessing here... but I am thinking you are shooting a .458 Bloodline and with a tight bore they could be a problem...


But, there is a viable alternative - a Lehigh .425x265 CF bullet.  It really comes very close to matching the Terminal Performance of the brass .458's.  But the real advantage for you there are 3 different thicknesses of sabots for a 45cal x 50.



This ballistic was computed shooting 120 gr. T7-2f

[elkonastick]

i am shooting the 275 bloodlines from the knight website, is a 275 a .458? I will definitely flush my barrel and follow your cleaning method

[Sabotloader]

i am shooting the 275 bloodlines from the knight website, is a 275 a .458? I will definitely flush my barrel and follow your cleaning method

The 275 is a 458... what color is the sabot that you are using with that bullet?  It should be either an Orange (MMP) or Red sabot if it came from Knight.

[elkonastick]

yep red

[gee_unit360]

Do you need a new hammer assembly to do the 209 conversion on the Knight Bighorn, or can you just get a 209 compatible breech and nipple?

[elkonastick]

from what i read you would need to buy the full conversion kit including the new plunger. the diameter of the cup on the striker face is smaller on the no. 11 plunger and hits the plastic jacket. just what I read, not 100% sure on this

[Sabotloader]

Do you need a new hammer assembly to do the 209 conversion on the Knight Bighorn, or can you just get a 209 compatible breech and nipple?

It really depends on what hammer assembly is in your rifle.  If you have a newer Bighorn it probably came with a Universal Hammer that can be used on both caps and 209's.  It will have a cone built into it on the face of the hammer.  If the face of your hammer is flat that then you will need the new hammer assembly.


This is the universal hammer - although this one has had the coned milled flat to shoot caps.

[Sabotloader]

Do you need a new hammer assembly to do the 209 conversion on the Knight Bighorn, or can you just get a 209 compatible breech and nipple?

It really depends on what hammer assembly is in your rifle.  If you have a newer Bighorn it probably came with a Universal Hammer that can be used on both caps and 209's.  It will have a cone built into it on the face of the hammer.  If the face of your hammer is flat that then you will need the new hammer assembly.

This is the universal hammer - although this one has had the coned milled flat to shoot caps.



This is a better pic

[gee_unit360]

Thanks Sabotloader

[Browndown]

I just got the 209 conversion kit for my bighorn. Long story short, i stongly urge anyone with a bighorn to NOT convert to 209. I had 3 out of 8 of the full plastic jackets blowback so violently that the primer was dislodged from the plastic jacket  and the fpj was lodged sideways between the nipple and the hammer. Almost identical to the pics sabotloader posted of the 209's with the bare nipple. I ended up yanking out the 209 breech plug and putting the #11 back in to try and salvage my day at the range. The 3 shots that had the "dislocated" primers were horribly off my group, like 8" in all directions. And that particular 209 setup causes a filthy mess everywhere. The entire hammer was black, all the way to the spring and the threads that lock it in place. After 8 shots. Not trying to ramble on, just felt i had to chime in on this. Never had an issue with #11's, just got lured in to try something "better". 209's are probably great in a different rifle, but have no place in a bighorn. Just my .02

[reelamin]

has anyone converted their knight bighorn to a 209 ignition? I am trying to order parts but the only thing I can find is the conversion kit for the plastic jacket. i just want a bare 209. any help w
ould be appreciated

I don't know about converting....I simply put the 209 plug in and shot it.   Not one bit of difference when shooting BH209 or any substitute.   Accuracy is the same and velocity is fractionally more depending on the load. 

[tarbabyone]

Well I just ordered two of the knight 209 conversion kits.  Best price I found was through Natchez shooting supplies and they were in stock.  I really wanted to get the conversion kit so I could try some of the new Alliant powder pellets that are supposed to be so much cleaner to shoot.  To those who have had issues with the 209 primers, were you using the Muzzle loading 209's?  I found some of the special made for muzzle loaders 209  primers at Tulalip Cabelas and I plan to try those.  I have been told that they are not quite as hot as a regular 209