Posting of No Trespassing on Forest Service Roads and Lands.....

[509]

A large western Washington timber company has moved into eastern Washington and has started posting Forest Service roads as no trespassing.

I will go ahead and notify the Forest Service, but I would like to know if there are any Washington state laws regarding illegal posting of public lands and roads??

I fully intend to hike and walk my “public roads”.  I suspect that the initial contact will be a call to a Deputy Sheriff so in addition to breaking of Federal law it would be nice to cite a state law to the Deputy.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Woodchuck]

What unit are you seeing this?

[Fl0und3rz]

I don't know about simple no trespassing signs, but I have seen timber companies logging in national forests close off certain roads, during actual operations, including non-working hours, when their machinery and equipment is there.

I'd imagine that it is with Forest Service approval, and it is likely to prevent theft and vandalism and to minimize liability risks.


But I am talking about actual logging operations and equipment, not just surveying the grounds.   It would be like driving or hiking into an actual construction site, something that you just wouldn't want to do, IMO.

[Humptulips]

Bring it to the attention of your District Ranger office. They will either put a stop to it or tell you why it is being done.

[bobcat]

Weyerhaeuser?

[DOUBLELUNG]

Definitely check with the District Ranger

[idaho guy]

Its against the law in Idaho. state land close to where I live is posted like crazy. It bothered me till I realized that it was actually a benefit to me and kept the crowds down  I don't really worry about it anymore and with onx maps and everything its not hard to figure out where the public land is now days. Anyways I think if you report it doesn't seem like they really care over here although I know its against the law. Might keep you spot less croweded     

[509]

What I really need is the Washington state WAC posting of public land illegally. I believe there is one since WDFW has had a couple of busts in the basin. Need to know if the WAC applies to Federal lands.

I have the Forest Service side covered.

The company has posted a LOT of land so hoping to use this opportunity to get some public’s interested in the illegal posting of public land.

[bigtex]

What I really need is the Washington state WAC posting of public land illegally. I believe there is one since WDFW has had a couple of busts in the basin. Need to know if the WAC applies to Federal lands.

I have the Forest Service side covered.

The company has posted a LOT of land so hoping to use this opportunity to get some public’s interested in the illegal posting of public land.

It's no longer a crime but rather an infraction (similar to a a barbed hook ticket) but this applies to posting of signs preventing hunting/fishing without the landowners permission. RCW 77.15.160(6)(c)

The best contact will be the USFS, they will sort it out with the timber company.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[pianoman9701]

Nice, BT. You're a great resource for us. 

[grundy53]

Which company?

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[509]

Mr. Weyerhauser.

Here is how to check on illegal posting of Forest Service managed public land by Mr. Weyerhauser or others.

Every Forest Supervisors office has a map atlas called the "ROAD ATLAS". It is usually kept by the Engineering section or Lands staff. A lot of people at the front desk have NO CLUE that it even exists, but everybody in Engineering or Lands knows about it.

Get a lat/long or mark the illegal posting on a Forest Service map. The best maps for this purpose are what the Forest Service calls the Fire Maps or District Maps. They show EVERY road, plus nifty items like helispots and water holes for fire engines.

You can then compare your map to the "ROAD ATLAS" which shows road status and who owns it and easements.

The Forest Service PURCHASED these easements in almost all cases for timber sale access, HOWEVER, it is Forest Service policy that when they buy a easement it includes PUBLIC ACCESS. Does not have to be vehicle access, but it is ALWAYS that the public has the right to use the road to access public lands. It does NOT provide access to private lands along the road.

The BLM is slightly different in that BLM does get easements that are for GOVERNMENT PURPOSES ONLY. Those easements do not give the public the right of access. However, BLM has been shifting over the years to public easements when possible.

I do not know about the DNR easement policy.

For EVERY road there is a easement document prepared that shows the price the taxpayers paid for the easement, plus a bunch of legal stuff. But the key words in the document are always....."and to other users including members of the public......

You should get a copy of the easement to carry with you in case somebody doesn't understand your rights as a "member of the public" not to mention a taxpayer that paid for the road access.

In Mr. Weyerhauser's illegal posting I found one road that was OWNED by DNR and on top of it has a Forest Service easement. The land owned by Mr. Weyerhauser was FIVE miles down the road. The first five miles were all public land on the sides. However, he posted it right at the county road!!

As outdoors folks I really think we need legislation to make this illegal and include a fine. Really Mr. Weyerhauser  knows better.....he is just trying to steal from the public.

[wolfbait]

I know of at least three different families that moved to the Methow from the west side in the last 30 years and posted USFS land as private property-No Trespassing, has kept some of the people out during hunting season.

One of them owns land on one side connected to USFS, he actually keeps a pretty good eye on his "private USFS" land, he has run off quite a few people with his arrogant attitude. I was falling some hazard trees for his neighbor one time, he come running up, and started in on me, I told him I would call the sheriff and let them straighten his problem out, shut him right up.

[optic2]

I know of at least three different families that moved to the Methow from the west side in the last 30 years and posted USFS land as private property-No Trespassing, has kept some of the people out during hunting season.

One of them owns land on one side connected to USFS, he actually keeps a pretty good eye on his "private USFS" land, he has run off quite a few people with his arrogant attitude. I was falling some hazard trees for his neighbor one time, he come running up, and started in on me, I told him I would call the sheriff and let them straighten his problem out, shut him right up.

Let them know I know where I'm at from using to OnX maps and they can shove it.

[Dan-o]

I know of at least three different families that moved to the Methow from the west side in the last 30 years and posted USFS land as private property-No Trespassing, has kept some of the people out during hunting season.

One of them owns land on one side connected to USFS, he actually keeps a pretty good eye on his "private USFS" land, he has run off quite a few people with his arrogant attitude. I was falling some hazard trees for his neighbor one time, he come running up, and started in on me, I told him I would call the sheriff and let them straighten his problem out, shut him right up.

Let them know I know where I'm at from using to OnX maps and they can shove it.

GPS is the best invention ever.

Where I hunt there are a couple farmers who like to keep people off public property.

I've had some great discussions with them when they try to stop me.   

I offer to call the Sheriff or the BLM regional manager (who's name I have in my phone) and suddenly they think it's OK for me to be on public land.

I try not to be a jerk, but this does get to me.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I know of at least three different families that moved to the Methow from the west side in the last 30 years and posted USFS land as private property-No Trespassing, has kept some of the people out during hunting season.

One of them owns land on one side connected to USFS, he actually keeps a pretty good eye on his "private USFS" land, he has run off quite a few people with his arrogant attitude. I was falling some hazard trees for his neighbor one time, he come running up, and started in on me, I told him I would call the sheriff and let them straighten his problem out, shut him right up.

Gebbers are closing lots of roads in the Chiliwist and lower valley through the County Commissioners.  They have figured out a way to get the county to abandon roads and they gate them. 

[baldopepper]

If you think it's a problem now, wait until they make it legal to just spray paint orange to mark no trespassing. I can think of several places in Utah where someone with a can of paint has easily used it to discourage those who aren't familiar with the property.  Unlike a posted sign these paint jobs last for years and years. Not sure onx or gps works unless your phone has service and many of these areas are out of service areas so I think hard to check while there. 

[cbond3318]

Ive never been fortunate enough to have some d bag come and try to run me off public land. Some guys have all the luck.     

Someday I hope.

[KB88]

OnX has an offline option. Still works as needed

[skeeter 20i]

Ive never been fortunate enough to have some d bag come and try to run me off public land. Some guys have all the luck.     

Someday I hope.

What part of Idaho are you in?  If you're in the panhandle I can take you to one this weekend for sure.  He comes out to "greet" me every time I park the truck and start walking in, we usually exchange well wishes as I move on thru.

[Skyvalhunter]

Well as "well what the he'll are you doing here again"?

[wolfbait]

I know of at least three different families that moved to the Methow from the west side in the last 30 years and posted USFS land as private property-No Trespassing, has kept some of the people out during hunting season.

One of them owns land on one side connected to USFS, he actually keeps a pretty good eye on his "private USFS" land, he has run off quite a few people with his arrogant attitude. I was falling some hazard trees for his neighbor one time, he come running up, and started in on me, I told him I would call the sheriff and let them straighten his problem out, shut him right up.

Gebbers are closing lots of roads in the Chiliwist and lower valley through the County Commissioners.  They have figured out a way to get the county to abandon roads and they gate them.

That's kind of a different deal, Gebber's own bother sides of the road, and I believe they do the maintenance on some of those roads. Would be different if that was the only road going through, but it's not the case.


Don't know if this happens much in other areas, but the last forty years in the Methow, seems the first thing people do when they buy a chunk of land is throw up the No Trespassing signs and there are several that post land they don't own, including sections of the river. Funny thing, they don't mind hunting on land that they don't own and is posted, hell they will even fix the fences so their critters can run on private range, gutsy people.

[fireweed]

This doesn't surprise me.  These companies, are in a lot of cases, royally bluffing the public on their signs on roads.  Each road almost has to be challenged and investigated, and sometimes other timber companies have made permit charging companies roll back their closures.  On the west side Weyerhaeuser has incorporated many parcels of state land into their permit access area.  When confronted about the fact that these DNR lands have easements on them, Weyerhaeuser claimed that these easements were for forestry purposes only--which is the wording they carefully use NOW for easements. 

NEVER EVER trust what you are told.

I went and actually looked up some of these easements.  They are everywhere and the ones written before about 1980 have a standard language that says "This easement is conveyed for the purposes of construction, reconstruction, use and maintenance of a road or roads for the purpose of providing access to and from lands now owned or hereafter acquired by the State." 

I can't imagine how a member of the  public walking that road with that easement on their way to state land could possibly be considered a trespasser. 

These older documents do not specify that these easements are for forestry or administrative use only in any way.   If you find a parcel of DNR mixed in with Weyco or other permit for entry timber land, first, check the gate and see if it has a DNR lock, next visit the county auditor or DNR office and do some digging (counties are even putting these online and searchable) then read the actual text of the easement.  Roads with easements change a lot, but often refer to the "original language of the easement" when they change, even today.

I haven't asked the DNR what they think about hiking to these parcels with "access to state land" easements, and they may side with Weyco but the language of the easement is on the side of access. 

[509]

All Forest Service easements clearly state public access. BLM easements sometimes are for government purposes only.

[Alpine Mojo]

The best contact will be the USFS, they will sort it out with the timber company.

Yeah, I'm sure they will get right on it...

[fireweed]

I think that these blanket closures of land that timber companies are now installing might come back to bite them.  Washington state is pretty generous to private landowners in preventing so called "prescriptive easement/adverse possession" claims if both parties have behaved neighborly for years, letting crossings occur.  When the parties have a falling out, and the issue gets taken to court, a long standing policy of past neighborly behavior actually prevents a easement claim. 

But now with a wholesale closure of all land owned by these companies (in some cases HALF the land in a county!), there now is proof of hostility with a crossing, and no longer any neighborly accommodation by these large companies.  After so many years of your driveway (for example) being in a company's permit-required area, an easement seeker has a better claim since there is proof of hostility and adverse use between the parties (vs. neighborly accommodation).

Same thing probably holds for a logging road.