Dogs and Cougars

[MLHSN]

Interested in input from those that have both dog and cougar experience. Yesterday I was hiking down the Eagle Creek trail (Twisp river area) with my dog (wirehaired pointing griffon). Tuck ranges about 15' ahead of me most the time. I came around the corner and saw a cat about 15' ahead of him in the trail. The second I saw it, I called Tuck to me. He turned immediately and was trotting back to me. At the sound of my voice the cougar turned and ran up trail away from me. I don't think my Dog ever saw it. Wind was at my back.

I think if he had seen it he might have chased. How does that normally work out? I know dogs are used to tree cats, but I also know cats pick off a lot of dogs at the edge of town. What's the deciding difference? Why do cats run during hound hunts but attack at other times? Do most of you keep your dogs closer? Only my third interaction with a cat and my first with a dog. Wondering If I need to take additional precautions/training in cougar/bear country with my dog.

[Timberstalker]

That’s tough. I had a run in with a large bear years ago with my current pup, who was a year old.

The only risk I’d see is you getting a ticket for dog training out of season.

My approach has always been to pack a gun for the cats or bears. But your suggested training may be worth while.

Curious to see other’s  responses.

[Humptulips]

Mostly when you're hound hunting you have more then one dog. Even two dogs are going to seem too much to handle for the average cougar.
That being said I used to have only one hound and he never was attacked. I'm sure though he was not as brave as if he had other hounds with him.
Also I think most of the pets taken by cougar are small breeds. Pointer ought to be big enough to intimidate almost all cougars IMO.

[Skyvalhunter]

PM sent don't under estimate if you will run into another cougar again but when. Will you be ready to dispatch it?

[idaho guy]

Mostly when you're hound hunting you have more then one dog. Even two dogs are going to seem too much to handle for the average cougar.
That being said I used to have only one hound and he never was attacked. I'm sure though he was not as brave as if he had other hounds with him.
Also I think most of the pets taken by cougar are small breeds. Pointer ought to be big enough to intimidate almost all cougars IMO.

Agreed I have treed lots of lions with one hound  I usually always start track with 2 hounds. Most lions will run but a small percentage will fight and they will wreck your dog. I have had hound buddies get dogs killed by Cougar’s. It has never happened to me but have ran into some fighters in the rocks. Depends on the dog to wether he just jumps in and starts grabbing fur or not too. I don’t think your dog is at great risk but depends on the cat and your dogs mentality I do wonder if Washington cats wouldn’t be more aggressive and bold since they haven’t been ran by dogs for years. Idaho cats are pretty conditioned I think to run just at a dog bark.

[kselkhunter]

I've had a number of interactions with my dogs and mountain lions.  I get mountain lions on my property occasionally, and we've run into them while hiking and hunting in the woods.   I have hunting dogs, a GSP and a lab.  Usually off leash most of the time.   Every time we've come into contact with a mountain lion, with either one or both dogs.....both the wild animal and the dog freeze in a stand off stare down.  My dogs don't bark, and have yet to chase the mountain lion.  My GSP actually goes on point on the mountain lion.   In every instance, I've walked up grabbed my dogs and backed away.  But the mountain lion always stays there staring at us until I yell at it and throw a rock at it...then it runs away.   I've never had a mountain lion or bear advance on my dogs, and they have always ran away.  The bears usually want no part of the dog.  The lions always get in a stair down and won't move until I yell and throw something at them.

But that is just my dogs. So, I can't advise what would happen with your dog if it noticed the lion.  The odd part is my GSP WILL chase a deer or elk if he sees it, as much as a pisses me off that he does it, but after a handful of lion and bear encounters he's never once left his point position.....not sure if he's preparing to defend me from the lion or why he freezes in his point position.   Maybe lions smell like pheasant. 

I get bear, mountain lion, bobcat, and coyote on my property regularly.  Always have a can of bear spray near the door and look out the door before I open it (had a bear standing 6 feet from the door one day), and a gun nearby as well.  Have never had to use either weapon though.   In the spring and summer, the bear spray is usually in my hand or on my body when I let the dogs out in the morning and evening. 

[KFhunter]

I had one stalk me and the dog out for almost a mile, my dog was pretty young still and she went on point, then she wanted to run up there where the cat was.  She didn't see it, only smelled it, which I did too cause it had just sprayed a tree.

I know of a cat that killed 4 hounds, an outfitter in canada had a client and it killed all the dogs he turned loose, he made some phone calls and other outfitter/s put out a whole pile of dogs on it and they got the cat but it holed up and fought.  It was a big tom with a puncture hole in its skull from an even larger tom.


There's just no guessing what a Cougar will do.  They typically run from hounds because the dogs are making so much racket and aggressive it shocks the cat into fleeing, a quiet dog and it might not flee, they have a chance to study the situation.

[Jim/WA]

A year and a half ago I was hunting grouse near Silver Star outside of Vancouver USA. My GSP was circling through a tangle of vine maple about 50 yards above me when he started yapping like he does when a deer jumps up in front of him. Next thing I know, a big Tom comes gliding through the brush right past me with the dog not too far behind but out of sight. The cat stopped twice and looked back but didn't seem to show any indication of aggression -- more like he was trying to figure out what was happening. About 20 seconds after the cat disappeared, along comes the dog in hot pursuit until an E-collar put a stop to it.

[MLHSN]

Thanks for the input guys. Your input makes me feel better about continuing to hike with my dog in bear/cougar country.

[jagermiester]

That emaciated cat in North Bend acted in a way that was not normal when he attacked 2 grown men on bikes. You should really think about some protection if you are seeing cats on your walks. My 

[KFhunter]

That emaciated cat in North Bend acted in a way that was not normal when he attacked 2 grown men on bikes. You should really think about some protection if you are seeing cats on your walks. My 

That was pretty well debunked on HW

[jagermiester]

That emaciated cat in North Bend acted in a way that was not normal when he attacked 2 grown men on bikes. You should really think about some protection if you are seeing cats on your walks. My 

That was pretty well debunked on HW

What was debunked?

[MLHSN]

That emaciated cat in North Bend acted in a way that was not normal when he attacked 2 grown men on bikes. You should really think about some protection if you are seeing cats on your walks. My 

I often do carry. The problem is, if my dog chases, they might be out of site. I can't shoot what I can't see.

[runamuk]

That emaciated cat in North Bend acted in a way that was not normal when he attacked 2 grown men on bikes. You should really think about some protection if you are seeing cats on your walks. My 

That was pretty well debunked on HW

What was debunked?

That the cat acted out of the ordinary.  Its a good sales pitch but not really accurate.

[catdog]

The cat in north bend was out of the ordinary the way it acted with the mnt bikers but it acted normal as far as being scared of the dogs. Cat ran and treed like most do.  I think 99% of the time cats will walk away even from lab , bird dog ect but there is always that chance with any wildlife.

[jagermiester]

All I know is that every time I've seen a cat the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. I love how awesome they are but they scare the heck out of me, I think I watched where the red fern grows too many times when I was a kid.  If big Dan couldn't handle that Tom its just a crapshoot.

[Special T]

Mostly when you're hound hunting you have more then one dog. Even two dogs are going to seem too much to handle for the average cougar.
That being said I used to have only one hound and he never was attacked. I'm sure though he was not as brave as if he had other hounds with him.
Also I think most of the pets taken by cougar are small breeds. Pointer ought to be big enough to intimidate almost all cougars IMO.

I've seen night time survailance footage of a cougar killing a lab and the jumping the fence with it.

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[wildweeds]

Many years ago, 2000 I had a pointer who was hell on wheels at game he shouldn't have been programmed to get after, his list of kills included half a dozen hawks, an owl, couple of cranes, chased deer and he treed a cougar down around pomeroy. I could always tell when nautiness was afoot, the bugger gave a high pitched yippy bark. His prowess as a bird dog really was sub part for a pointer. Putting the cat in the tree took the cake, I had a heck of a time wrangling him off. He ticked me off and we went back to the truck and to a different spot.

[AspenBud]

Strap an e-collar with a GPS on the dog. Dogtra sells a good one called the Pathfinder if money is an issue.

Also strap a bell (I use a Sunkhaze) or a beeper to make the dog's presence known. Also helps to keep track of the dog.

If you are hunting grouse with the dog the bell/beeper won't make a difference to the birds unless the bell stops.

Most hunting dogs killed in the woods are hounds, largely because of their range. Bird dogs dying due to a bear or cougar or wolf or coyote are far less common largely thanks to their proximity to the hunter. I know of some bird dogs that have been attacked in the woods, but in the last ten years it has been by black bears and a few involved coyotes and most all involved a bigger running/fast moving dog stumbling into the animals at the wrong place at the wrong time and not because they were actively hunted by them.

[bearpaw]

We've chased hundreds of cougar through the years, I can quickly remember 8 hounds purposely killed by cougars. On the other hand I've caught dozens of cougar with a single hound, mostly due to other dogs getting mixed up and only one dog finding the right track and working it out or due to split races where we ended up with multiple cats caught. In most cases one dog alone is in the most danger, the more dogs running together the less the danger. I like to run three dogs most of the time, but will put 4 to 6 dogs on a large tom for dog safety. It seems on the average, the larger and/or older the cat, the greater the chance of him/her not being as afraid of the dogs. A lone dog may be looked upon as an easy meal, especially to a cougar that has routinely eaten coyotes and/or single wolves in remote areas, or cougars that frequently hunt suburban or other human populated rural areas for neighborhood pets. Because WA has not had a hound hunting season for over 10 years, most every cougar alive in WA today has not had a fearful experience with dogs.

Aspenbud mentions bells, I agree with that 100%, we have bells on every hound we own, I'm a firm believer the unnatural sound of those bells dinging make it safer for a dog to be in the woods. I think the bells ward away most wild predators, although I know a few hound hunters who have lost dogs with bells to large packs of wolves, but I think that was due to the wolves having heard the bells on numerous previous occasions and finally decided they were going to get rid of the canine competition, bells or no bells.

We've had a few close calls with wolves coming close to the dogs and hunters and howling and barking at us and then flanking us coming out of the woods. That happened again this spring in idaho.

Getting back to dogs/cougars, I would put a bell or beeper on your dog and I think he'll be 300% safer, unless you meet up with a hungry cat that just has to eat, but I think most cats and other predators will be afraid of the dog/bell/human combination.

[bearpaw]

Let me add this:

When a cat or other predator look at something (prey, a dog, livestock, or even a human) it quickly makes a decision, either this is potential food, this is potential danger, or this requires more observation, and then it begins reacting according to it's impression. The more factors to encourage the predator to be fearful the better.