Thoughts on this guys advice for blacktail?

[fishermanjoe]

So I have hunted whitetail my whole life. Looking to try the blacktail game. Been scouting a large piece of DNR land on the west side and have seen good sign. Just looking to educate myself as much as possible. What are your guy's thoughts on this guys big tree go to? Worth it? Or is the underbrush so thick around here that this is not applicable for thick western washington areas?

[Old Man Yager]

The guy has quite a few videos on you tube and has killed some monsters, so there must be some truth to his approach. I've never tried to find a big tree, maybe I should start looking! Good luck

[pope]

The creator of that video is a guide and has spent most of his life in the woods. I don't question what he says, but remember that deer adapt to their situations, balancing out the need for food, thermal cover and a variety of ways to escape and hide from predators. In at least one of his videos, Steve Isdahl reveals some of the unique aspects of the deer he pursues. Apparently these bucks remain at higher elevation (3000 ft plus, from what I can gather) when other deer head for lower ground. He believes predators follow the herd down the mountain, and so the bucks he's hunting find safety by staying high and dealing with late autumn/winter snows. It's plausible that lichens and moss knocked off bigger trees would concentrate food on top of the snow pack and attract deer at that elevation in that season. I have no experience to confirm or deny; I hunt lower elevations primarily.

If your hunting situation is similar to Isdahl's, his advice will probably help. If you hunt closer to sea level, I'm not sure finding big trees will give you an edge. The best advice I received in this forum came from a guy who hunts in the Skykomish drainage, Turner89 if I remember correctly. He believes his success comes from learning as much as he can about the area he hunts, a process which can take years.

Hope this helps. Blacktail hunting is for those who enjoy frustration.

[Humptulips]

I'd say that in at least 90% of areas we hunt blacktail in WA this does not apply.
First place the idea that deer subsist on lichen falling from trees is just goofy. Maybe in deep snow after the season has closed.
Second to get to that kind of stuff you'd have to be in the high Cascades which is a minuscule percentage of blacktail hunting area.
If you hunt in the high Cascades give it a try and tell us how it goes. If you hunt elsewhere I would ignore it.

[Born2late]

I agree with him 100%. Although like hump said, it is specific to the type of area he is hunting. Which would be like the higher elevations of the cascades. I run 15 cameras a year and have lots of video of them in belly deep snow all winter long.The main food source is the lichen that he is talking about. They eat lots of cedar needles also.
The only problem i've found is narrowing down where the deer are at when they shed.I find quite a few but I miss 5 times more then i find.
If your going to hunt those types of areas you have to be in top shape and willing to bone and pack your deer out. I totally agree also about learning the area you hunt in depth. If you can find beds and rubs, spend the time figuring where they like to spend their time during the season you hunt.

[G.R.K]

Steve Isdahl has a lot of blacktail and hunting knowledge watch his videos.
https://www.youtube.com/user/proguide66/videos?disable_polymer=1

[lewy]

He’s definitely dialed, he also gets to hunt a great area with a great population and all during the rut.....lucky sob lol

[fishnfur]

Boy, you guys covered it all.  There's not much left to say on the matter.  The big trees theory seems to work wonderfully for him at high elevation.  Down low, you will often find beds above and below the biggest trees in the area, but absolutely no poop, indicating that the tree/s are not a major food source, or a better food source than elsewhere.  I've never found a shed either when I've targeted big trees when hunting.

Welcome back Pope!

[fishermanjoe]

All great input guys! After going back out and looking for these big tree areas there seems to be none. This area is only around 300 ft elevation max so i guess it will not apply. This is my first year in this area and have a lot to learn. I guess my biggest leap is to figure out what areas they will be using during the season. I feel like i am spinning my wheels locating bucks while they are in velvet.

Found some great areas with trails and heavy cover, but after 2 weeks of a trail cam soak got zero pics. Only got a few pics of one small buck over apples.  I went and got the blacktail hunting tactics book and starting to learn that when it comes to hunting the wet side nothing matters on public land other than being in the right place at the right time during the rut.

Since there is a wealth of blacktail knowledge here let me run this by you. This area is super thick outside of the fresh clear cuts which I am assuming there will be a rat race to reach while on public land so I wont bother. Under brush in the older stands of timber are basically un huntable. There are some straight logging roads and some visible straightaways that i can sit on to catch one crossing one thick area to another.
What are your thoughts on rattling during the 4 days of late buck.   

[fishnfur]

Late buck is post-rut.  Rattling will be a little less effective because most of the does have been bred already and the bucks are running around looking for the last few breeders not protecting territory and proving who's boss.  Gentle rattling in the General Season, especially during the last few days of Oct. makes a lot of sense.  Do try it in the late season too, but in my mind, that is not rattling prime time.   

Forget sitting on that long road with great visibility.  It is illegal to shoot along or across a PUBLIC road.  Bucks normally stand hidden along a road and make sure the coast is clear before crossing. They know they're exposed to humans there and normally are very wary.  Once they go into the open, you have about a second and a half to decide to shoot and then get the shot off before he is across and gone.  Not great odds.  Old brushed in logging roads on private timberland can be excellent areas to slowly walk during hunting, especially if they are gated.  The farther in you go, the more relaxed the deer tend to be, but this time of year, deer are generally only moving around early and late and are bedded during most of the day.  Scouting these areas is about finding trails, browsed areas, and other fresh sign.

The best clearcuts for finding deer were cut and replanted 3 - 8 years ago. They are full of food. Older than that, you cannot see into well, the deer that are there hide very easily, and the trees start shading out and killing the underbrush (food). New brown dirt cuts have very very little food and do not attract deer, though the few does that lived there prior to the cut can still be seen hanging around sometimes.  That is their home, whether or not it has trees.  Ignore those new cuts and find one closer to the correct age.  One you can still see into, and preferably, you can get above and look down into is best.   If you've located bucks in the summer in that cut, they will be there in the early season.  Be stealthy getting in there.  The bucks bed where they can see what is going on.  If they know you are there, they will not show themselves.

Now is the time to put in more work trying to locate bucks while scouting.  It is not easy, but it is way easier now than during hunting season.  It is good practice for you in learning to identify deer shapes while they are not hiding well.  Don't spend too long in one place.  Glass for thirty minutes and move on.  Bucks are not everywhere.  You will start to understand they types of areas they like as your success improves. 

 

[JimmyHoffa]

I think big trees can be helpful, but I sort of have a different angle.  I like to scan for the clumps of big trees because it tends to mean that the area was too much trouble for the loggers, which usually means some type of geographic feature.  Which I find is usually small cliffs or outcrops.  Seems the deer have their trails around them and don't really care to travel through them.  Another thing is that when the storms knock down the big trees, the animals tend to walk around rather than climb over.  Basically, use the trees to find natural funnels.

[Calvin Rayborn]

 

[Humptulips]

I will offer this bit of advice and it applies to modern rifle, not so much others.
Any time of the year outside of rut bucks are acting different then the rut. Deer season here starts pre-rut but works into rut before the end of the regular season.
Find the does and the bucks will be near in the later part of the season. As the season goes on it gets better.
If you do see a nice buck before season he probably is not moving to far but come that last week of Oct he'll be covering the ground.
If I was you I would find myself a place with a good amount of deer, period. There will be bucks around.
Also stormy weather is your friend. Only thing better is being out for that couple hours after the storm stops.
Good luck!

[fishermanjoe]

Sweet! Thanks again guys.

Fishnfur I would never shoot from/on/across an active road. By road I was referring to old logging roads. They are all closed gate and have big dirt piles blocking access to any vehicles. Most of the logging roads are overgrown with trails intersecting them.

There are random cut straight aways that look almost mowed. I think there is a pipe line or something that cuts through, no clear markers though. On my hunt on X app its all DNR land so I have no idea what these cuts are for. Makes for some nice visibility and easy still hunting.

Ill just have to hit it hard and find out where these guys like to hang out.

[JakeLand]

Some really good info already! If it was me at that low of elevation I would be looking for benches on every hill around and look for vine maple and ferns those usually equal to blacktail and also look for rubs around alder flats or really old logging roads . Look for last years tell tale sighn of bucks and that will tell you the areas you want to key in on

[fishnfur]

   Take that as gospel.  Jakeland is a master BT hunter.  I take notes when he speaks. 

[fishnfur]

There are random cut straight aways that look almost mowed. I think there is a pipe line or something that cuts through, no clear markers though. On my hunt on X app its all DNR land so I have no idea what these cuts are for. Makes for some nice visibility and easy still hunting.

BTW - I know of one similar strip of well maintained land which I believe is a gas pipeline.  It is somewhat similar to the pole-line roads used for local and BPA power lines, but instead of a lot of brush under power lines, this has grass.  I've seen a few doe use the strip in a couple different locations, so hunting a spot like that may not be a terrible idea, especially once the bucks are out searching or chasing.  Remember though that you should be absolutely hidden if you are out in the open trying to hunt a spot like that.  A quick detour into the dark woods on either side of an opening like that will immediately  display how visible a hunter is waiting out in the open (to an animal approaching from within the woods).  Deer normally stop inside the edge and spend time checking out an opening before they step out, so anything amiss will cause them to go the other way.  Hunting from inside the edge where you are hidden but can see a long distance sounds like a preferable situation. 

Scouting is as important here as elsewhere.  A lot of good sign might indicate that the area is worth spending time during the season.  As Humptulips suggested, finding an area with a lot of deer now drastically increases your chances of success during the season.

[predatorG]

I think I've got a pretty good idea where you're hunting. I'm not sure but there's really only one place that Blacktail hunters new to Kitsap go    I hunt private land behind my house but feel free to shoot me a PM and I'll talk you through some good public spots. I would assume you're probably going to GM which undoubtedly has some good spots, but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets pretty busy during the season.
My best advice for learning about the deer and spending time in the woods is to get an archery tag. Honestly the amount of time you get to hunt is hugely beneficial to learning about the animals, and there is generally less hunting pressure. Does this mean no one will ever be at your gate ? No, but I think it does give you more freedom away from other hunting pressure. It sounds like you've got a tag so the archery advice may have to wait until next year, but please still PM me and I'll try and point you in some good directions.

[blackveltbowhunter]

I listen to his advice very closely, and think he is spot on. The exception being the size of tree and the elevation. In alot of lower elevations I don't know if it's the food that draws them in, but something does. Regardlessr where I am I key in on the most mature vegetation in the area. Maybe it's 100 year old trees, maybe its 20. Doesn't matter, that's where I start and usually turn up mature buck sign.

[fishnfur]

...interesting.