Cougar Harvest Guideline System

[pianoman9701]

So, I'm looking at the cougar harvest guideline system. 560's guideline is 5-6. 572's guideline is 2-3. These are huge units. Based on maintaining populations using the standard of 14% +/- 2%, that means they estimate there are 40 cougars in all of the Lewis River unit and 18 in all of Siouxon? Am I reading the guidelines correctly and if so, are they smoking crack in Olympia while compiling these? Someone please tell me what I'm missing here, if anything.

[Jonathan_S]

I don't think you're missing anything.  I'm no expert at cougar populations but I'd say it's crazy for anybody to estimate that low of a number in big wild areas with resident ungulates, particularly in those two units.

[Ridgeratt]

You may get some input from KF Hunter if you ask him.

[KFhunter]

I don't have much to add other than it's political or emotionally based biology in which the ousted WSU professor Weilgus played a direct part. 

I can't believe that WDFW thinks their estimations are a real number.  Having that thought only makes me believe that WDFW is intentionally and deliberately misleading us all. 

Another thing that irks me about the low harvest guidelines is that problem cougar killed because they present a significant risk to the public or livestock are counted in the harvest guidelines, detracting from what hunters are allowed to take.

In the GMU's I'm most familiar with I know the numbers are very wrong. I spent time with the WSU student researchers that were running hounds and tracking the cats.  There are a lot more cats than WDFW lets on. 

The only question is why?

[wheels]

maybe its time to call out wdfw

[Cougartail]

The only question is why?

Because the state is full of and lead by a bunch of *censored*.

[Rainier10]

The forum has a built in censor, trying to get around it by changing letters or the spelling just makes more work for the mod team.

Please keep it clean.

[Special T]

So, I'm looking at the cougar harvest guideline system. 560's guideline is 5-6. 572's guideline is 2-3. These are huge units. Based on maintaining populations using the standard of 14% +/- 2%, that means they estimate there are 40 cougars in all of the Lewis River unit and 18 in all of Siouxon? Am I reading the guidelines correctly and if so, are they smoking crack in Olympia while compiling these? Someone please tell me what I'm missing here, if anything.

As memory serves they only count adults 2+ years old as the population base... there was some kind of specific definition used that made the math merky for me. 

[pianoman9701]

It still can't be even close to the real population.

[Special T]

It still can't be even close to the real population.

It might also only be one sex...  I remeber it was something goofy about the definition.

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[Cougartail]

It still can't be even close to the real population.

For years the population was estimated at 1900 to 2100. Then the state estimate was 3500 to 4500 a few years back. Magically it is now 1900 to 2100 again.

Odd?

[Moe the Sleaze]

I've never seen a cougar in 40 years of hunting elk and deer here, mostly in the NE corner.  How many do you folks think there are?  And how do you expect WDFW to conduct population surveys on Cougars?  Estimates at best, obviously.  So they decide to be conservative.  I have no problem with that.

[JimmyHoffa]

I see about 2-3 a year during deer and elk.  A couple of years ago I saw I think 7, but that also included fishing.

[Nwgunner]

Am I right in interpreting the regs to say that the harvest guideline system only refers to a possible closure during late season?  What happens if the guideline is reached during early season?

[hunter399]

Am I right in interpreting the regs to say that the harvest guideline system only refers to a possible closure during late season?  What happens if the guideline is reached during early season?

Nothing , they allow people to hunt till Jan 1 ,even if guidelines are done ,there are some cases that harvest is reached do to public safety cougar removals,so no late season.