Backup Pistol ********

[bullchaser]

Ok new record stupid comment from a BELLEVUE gun store clerk.

“ Glock 10mm is the best bear gun made. If I was going to Alaska tomorrow, and needed a firearm to protect myself, I would rather have a Glock 10mm than a 12 gage with slugs and buckshot”

 I love opinion that’s never been tempered with reality or experience !

[Ridgeratt]

Did you ask to see if they are a Forum member?   

[bullchaser]

No, that’s why I didn’t say who or where, that’s not the point! I was just trying to brighten your day with a little humor!!

[h20hunter]

Avoid the censors and use profanity will result in edits.

Pretty easy, dont do it.

[bullchaser]

 Nothing was edited, It reads how it was written.
 Thank you for reminding me why I don’t post on the site anymore !

[h20hunter]

I edited the title as it contained profanity. Post or not post is up to you but profanity is not ok.

[Jellymon]

Did you ask him if the front sight is easily removable so that when a grizzly shoves it up his backside it won’t hurt as much?

[JJB11B]

Did you ask him if the front sight is easily removable so that when a grizzly shoves it up his backside it won’t hurt as much?

Isn't that the reason beretta shaped the PX4 pistol that way?

[Wazukie]

Love my Glock 40 mos, would I use in Brown Bear country?  Nope!  Black Bear country?  Yup.  15 rounds of 200 grain xtp at 1300+ fps aint to bad.

[KFhunter]

I don't ask people behind the counters for advise, their job is to check that it's unloaded then hand it to me, and put it away when I'm done or start the paper. 

[davef]

After selling guns for 6 years I dont ask anything anymore. Everyone's a critic and there's way too much ego. Just smile and nod.

[CAMPMEAT]

22lr to a 50-AE............

[lucky7]

Let me guess, Wades

[PlateauNDN]

Well theres your problem. You went to a gun store in Bellevue. 

[ctwiggs1]

After selling guns for 6 years I dont ask anything anymore. Everyone's a critic and there's way too much ego. Just smile and nod.

Some unfortunate truth to this.

[Cougartail]

Ok new record stupid comment from a BELLEVUE gun store clerk.

“ Glock 10mm is the best bear gun made. If I was going to Alaska tomorrow, and needed a firearm to protect myself, I would rather have a Glock 10mm than a 12 gage with slugs and buckshot”

 I love opinion that’s never been tempered with reality or experience !

* Best gun for bears, no. With hard cast bullets it will do. Remember the bear guide who killed one with a 9mm and 147g hardcasts? His daughter carries a 357 with 180g hardcasts for protection.


*I definitely would rather have a 10mm with hardcasts than buckshot. Only an idiot thinks buckshot is adequate for large game.


*Your animal brain kicks in when facing a 1000lb bear and you won't lie to yourself. Most peoples info is just regugetated drivel they heard somewhere. Actual testing, killing and encounters are realitivly rare and is lost amongst "counter" experts mountains of bull excrement.

[ian_padron]

I don't ask people behind the counters for advise, their job is to check that it's unloaded then hand it to me, and put it away when I'm done or start the paper.

Truer words have never been spoken my friend.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk

[Cylvertip]

There is momentum for the 10mm. Even more specifically with  Underwood ammo Extreme Penetrator, you get penetration and a large wound channel.  The shift from large wheel guns is partially because of speed of follow up shots. I will see if I can find the video of the Alaskan who was changing to 10mm after killing a brown bear with a 44 on his second shot.  He felt he was damn lucky to get the second shot off in time.  He does some performance tests with a grizz skull and ballistic gel for both rounds.

I bought a Glock 40 this spring from a fellow member for my brown bear country sidearm.  The Underwood ammo will be on the way shortly.

[KFhunter]

I haven't gone to the extreme penetrator; I don't quite buy into the large wound channel idea just yet.   I want a big chunk of hard lead smashing and shattering bone not poking little holes possibly leaving the bone intact.  I want broken shoulders, broken legs and big holes through skulls.

I'd like to see the extreme penetrator in a bear shoulder and see how it does.

[Cylvertip]

I misspoke in my earlier post, he did not kill a charging bear with the 44. He got one shot off and scared it off.  He explains it in the video a bit.  There are lots of other videos on the xtreme penetrater out there.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzxL9r_1IF0

[Bofire]

  My young sons first bear, hit it with an 06, "pistol expert" with him was going to kill it with his 44 mag Ruger, Winchester ammo, 240 grain  soft points, shot it at the base of the skull twice, did not kill the bear, penetrated about 2-3 inches.
Carl

[KFhunter]

I misspoke in my earlier post, he did not kill a charging bear with the 44. He got one shot off and scared it off.  He explains it in the video a bit.  There are lots of other videos on the xtreme penetration out there.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzxL9r_1IF0

That bear skull is bleached and brittle, not really a fair comparison to a skull surrounded by fat, muscle and fur and hydrated bone. 

Having said that grizz skulls bouncing off bullets like Captain America's shield is a bit of a wife's tale too     Truth is close to the bear holding it's head high in an aggressive charge the skull top is pretty horizontal rather than vertical like he shot it.

[Cylvertip]

Guessing he shot it with the 44 that way since he had already plugged it in the forehead with the 10.  Just for demonstration purposes. 

200 rounds of the xtreme penetrater arriving in a  couple days

[CAMPMEAT]

Did you ask to see if they are a Forum member?   

Good one and I hope you asked if they have stolen any game cameras for members lately..........

[MHWASH]

I pack a 9mm loaded with 147 Buffalo Bore ammo. Either in a G19 or Shield depending on the situation.

I've owned and shot lots of 44, 41, 357 and 10mm. My take away is the 40+ caliber revolvers are heavy cumbersome, and in a  real world bear charge situation I think you'll be lucky to get off follow up shots, plus if your charged how likely is that first shot going to be effective.

Same thing can be said for the 10mm. I've had the G20 and the G29, those are both handfuls when trying to shoot rapid fire with stout loads. Although I haven't shot one, I'm sure the G40 would be better in the recoil department, but I feel the 6" barrel is a great detractor for a self defense weapon.

According to Buffalo Bores website the .357 w/180 hardcasts is equal to the 10mm. I may just carry my 357 w/ 4" barrel this fall while in Grizzly, but haven't decided yet. I need to shoot it and the 9mm again before I decide.

That's my 2 cents worth, so take it for what it's worth.

[C-Money]

If we are picking a little at gun salesmen....I laugh "annoyed" when... you ask to see a pistol and you get the salesmen who gets the pistol out of the case, and has to show off his ninja skills on how to point a pistol proper and perfect like, then proceeds to recite a bunch of sound smart pointing/handling/aiming crap, that has no use to the situation.

[WaltAlpine]

After a fair amount of homework and conversations, I settled on a Ruger Blackhawk in 45LC. I have it loaded with Buffalo Bore 325gr hard cast.
I hope to never find out how good it works. 

[CAMPMEAT]

Did you ask to see if they are a Forum member?   

 

[Tiger1358]

Ok new record stupid comment from a BELLEVUE gun store clerk.

“ Glock 10mm is the best bear gun made. If I was going to Alaska tomorrow, and needed a firearm to protect myself, I would rather have a Glock 10mm than a 12 gage with slugs and buckshot”

 I love opinion that’s never been tempered with reality or experience !

* Best gun for bears, no. With hard cast bullets it will do. Remember the bear guide who killed one with a 9mm and 147g hardcasts? His daughter carries a 357 with 180g hardcasts for protection.


*I definitely would rather have a 10mm with hardcasts than buckshot. Only an idiot thinks buckshot is adequate for large game.


*Your animal brain kicks in when facing a 1000lb bear and you won't lie to yourself. Most peoples info is just regugetated drivel they heard somewhere. Actual testing, killing and encounters are realitivly rare and is lost amongst "counter" experts mountains of bull excrement.

How can 10mm be better than buckshot? So 1x bullet of 10mm is better than 9x(at least) 9mm equivalent pellets at the same time ?

A lot of my family members and friends have and still hunt brown bear & wild boar with 00 or 000 buckshot back in Europe and it's 16 GAUGE, not even 12. Any animal drops in tracks if the bullet or pellet hits the brain or spine.

[Windwalker]

Glock 20 Ends Bear Attack, Just Barely
Some critters take a lot of killing, and the Glock almost didn't do it.

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/14/glock-20-ends-bear-attack-just-barely/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=2018-09-18&utm_campaign=Weekly%20Newsletter

another link from the same story

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/09/dean-weingarten/a-new-mexico-bear-attack-finally-stopped-by-a-glock-10mm-pistol/

[Cougartail]

Glock 20 Ends Bear Attack, Just Barely
Some critters take a lot of killing, and the Glock almost didn't do it.

https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/14/glock-20-ends-bear-attack-just-barely/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=2018-09-18&utm_campaign=Weekly%20Newsletter

another link from the same story

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2018/09/dean-weingarten/a-new-mexico-bear-attack-finally-stopped-by-a-glock-10mm-pistol/

Hardcast bullets, heavy for caliber are the only bullets that should be used in handguns for bear protection because penetration is what counts.


Buckshot does poorly in the penetration department.. Would you think about shooting a bear 9 times with a soft lead 55 grain bullet traveling at 1200 to 1500 fps.. That's what your doing with 00 buck shot

[KFhunter]

Underwood 220 gr coated hardcast in my 10mm with LW barrel, stainless guide rod, and a 24lb recoil spring  (might be a tad heavy, want to try 22lb) 11 coil mag springs

BRAND:UNDERWOOD AMMO

SKU:242

TECHNICAL INFORMATION
Caliber: 10mm Auto
Bullet Weight: 220 Grains
Bullet Style: Hi -Tek Coated Hard Cast Flat Nose 21 BHN
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass
BALLISTICS INFORMATION
Muzzle Velocity: 1200 fps
Muzzle Energy: 703 ft lbs

[Windwalker]

 Some interesting information here-
https://loadoutroom.com/thearmsguide/10006-2/

 Personally I like to keep in mind if I would consider a 30-30 adequate since hand gun loads are dismal in comparison. It depends on the critter and what you are competent with.
 
 There is something to be said for a 10mm with proper loads and practice being better than the shotgun/45-70 (or insert your preference)  leaning against a tree out of reach.
 
 I've had no problems in the past with fast follow up shots using my 44 mag. and have carried it in Brown bear country but it wouldn't be my first choice as a back up if fishing a stream in Alaska. 

 

[optic2]

Ok new record stupid comment from a BELLEVUE gun store clerk.

“ Glock 10mm is the best bear gun made. If I was going to Alaska tomorrow, and needed a firearm to protect myself, I would rather have a Glock 10mm than a 12 gage with slugs and buckshot”

 I love opinion that’s never been tempered with reality or experience !

Penetration is why he said that. A larger round will hit much harder but won't penetrate as well. A high pressure, higher grain smaller round will penetrate better to internal organs. And penetrating internal organs is how you kill animals.

A guide in Alaska killed a grizzly with the 9mm Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman ammo. Follow the link and scroll down and it will give you the story.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388

[Oh Mah]

Can these extreme penetrator bullets be bought somewhere for reloading yet?

[jdb]

Ok new record stupid comment from a BELLEVUE gun store clerk.

“ Glock 10mm is the best bear gun made. If I was going to Alaska tomorrow, and needed a firearm to protect myself, I would rather have a Glock 10mm than a 12 gage with slugs and buckshot”

 I love opinion that’s never been tempered with reality or experience !

Penetration is why he said that. A larger round will hit much harder but won't penetrate as well. A high pressure, higher grain smaller round will penetrate better to internal organs. And penetrating internal organs is how you kill animals.

A guide in Alaska killed a grizzly with the 9mm Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman ammo. Follow the link and scroll down and it will give you the story.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388

with all due respect I think you have your penetration facts a little off.

[BKMFR]

Glock 40 with Buffalo Bore ammo, is with me in a Kenai chest holster. No experience to say if it's better than a 12 ga shotgun, but I'm comfortable with it, and have enough experience with it that I can make fast follow-up shots. Only bear I ever killed that charged me was with a 44 mag- S & W 629, son wounded him, and he came full out charge, my first shot was in lower jaw, didn't phase him, second shot was just above right eye- killed him stone dead in full stride, 7' away. I would take handgun again over shotgun in same case, but that's just me.

[Wazukie]

Can these extreme penetrator bullets be bought somewhere for reloading yet?

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-19785%2B4294943531%2B4294939244%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1&userItemsPerPage=48&persistedItemsPerPage=0

[Oh Mah]

Can these extreme penetrator bullets be bought somewhere for reloading yet?

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-19785%2B4294943531%2B4294939244%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1&userItemsPerPage=48&persistedItemsPerPage=0

Thanks i will look them up.

[KFhunter]

Archery hunters can't carry a shotgun. 

The 10mm is a good compromise all things considered but I certainly wouldn't scoff at someone with a revolver or smaller auto or just bear spray, at least they have *something*   

After 8 days of hiking up and down mountains chasing Elk I was wishing I brought the SIG P365 instead of the G20 because it's so lightweight, but that was only until I found myself following some Grizz tracks hours old then me wishing I had the little P365 vanished. 

[ljsommer]

Ok new record stupid comment from a BELLEVUE gun store clerk.

“ Glock 10mm is the best bear gun made. If I was going to Alaska tomorrow, and needed a firearm to protect myself, I would rather have a Glock 10mm than a 12 gage with slugs and buckshot”

 I love opinion that’s never been tempered with reality or experience !

Well one of those two things fits comfortably on your hip. Context matters I suppose.

[Stein]

Ok new record stupid comment from a BELLEVUE gun store clerk.

“ Glock 10mm is the best bear gun made. If I was going to Alaska tomorrow, and needed a firearm to protect myself, I would rather have a Glock 10mm than a 12 gage with slugs and buckshot”

 I love opinion that’s never been tempered with reality or experience !

Penetration is why he said that. A larger round will hit much harder but won't penetrate as well. A high pressure, higher grain smaller round will penetrate better to internal organs. And penetrating internal organs is how you kill animals.

A guide in Alaska killed a grizzly with the 9mm Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman ammo. Follow the link and scroll down and it will give you the story.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=388

I'll take the 12 gauge every day and twice on Sunday.

[SpurInSpokane]

This episode of Hunt Backcountry interviewed the owner of Tactic Mt, they run a grizzly survival course, and they did a lot of penetration testing of various calibers.
Right around the 46 minute mark, they start talking about the testing of different calibers. Spoiler....they recommend 9mm or 10mm
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-hunt-backcountry-podcast/e/54153613

The whole podcast was pretty interesting, especially since it was released around the same time that Randy Newberg's pod with griz survivor Todd Orr came out.