Alternative perspective on messing with others’ game cams

[Taco280AI]

Alternative to the OP's post. If something is not yours, don't touch it!

Simple

[CedarPants]

If he's trolling, he's the most polite troll I've come across in a while 

 

with respect to you and everyone else on this forum that is exactly how the anti trolls work,get a heated discussion going all while maintaining the innocent one in the discussion and then boom start quoting violence laws and such.and still maintaining the moral high ground in the discussion and dividing the groups. 

Then you should be pleased to see it's not working   All I see is 5 pages of people responding in unanimous agreement that it's not ok to touch other people's cams.  No division at all there.

The only division I see is a side discussion on the varying levels of civility with which people are choosing to respond.  I don't think that discussion is going to split the hunting community though.

[Oh Mah]

agreed,  keeping it civil.

[Doublelunger]

You can try to justify it however you want, some do that by interpreting laws to their benefit.  The fact is that laws are written by man and man is imperfect.  What you really need to do is follow your moral compass. Regardless of what the law says or how I might interpret it my moral compass personally tells me that messing with someone elses game camera is wrong, so I wont do it.

[frazierw]

In WA even looking at the pics will take your modern rifle away as a felon......

“
Electronic data theft.

(1) A person is guilty of electronic data theft if he or she intentionally, without authorization, and without reasonable grounds to believe that he or she has such authorization, obtains any electronic data with the intent to:
(a) Devise or execute any scheme to defraud, deceive, extort, or commit any other crime in violation of a state law not included in this chapter; or
(b) Wrongfully control, gain access to, or obtain money, property, or electronic data.”
(2) Electronic data theft is a class C felony.

I dont think according to this RCW, that viewing photos on someone else's SD card is against the law in any way. 

[yakimanoob]

Do we have any law enforcement officers or game wardens on here, or maybe lawyers who could weigh in with a professional not personal viewpoint on whether it is or isnt a crime to tamper with, view pics or even take trail cameras on public land?

I doubt any LEO would chime in on a public forum--way too risky for them to be maliciously quoted.  A lawyer might weigh in I guess 

To me, this is not a grey area at all.  Use of trail cameras on public land is a common practice that is perfectly legal (generally speaking).  I called the Naches Ranger Station; the receptionist didn't know of any relevant regulations on game cam usage, but referred me to one of the biologists "because I know she uses cameras a lot"  .  I called WDFW and one of their communications officers stated that you can use cam cameras on public land "as long as you're not trespassing."  He referred me to the Wildlife Program for anything that might be hunting/wildlife specific but generally speaking remote cameras are legal.  He said he had no knowledge of any time limit on how long you can leave a camera out. 

But really it's a moot point.  If someone is using a camera illegally, it does not follow that you (i.e., any citizen who walks by) thus has the right to take the property.  That might sound obvious.  Hopefully it does sound obvious.  But the point I'm making is that the "property" here includes not just the camera itself but also the card and the images captured by the camera.  Hence the aforementioned RCW on data theft being a felony.  [as a side note: I'm personally surprised that this is a felony.  that seems rather harsh, but the law is clear...]

If it's legal to use a camera on public land, it is then illegal for another user to "mess with," view photos, take the camera, or otherwise touch it. 

If it is illegal to us a camera on that particular spot, it is still illegal for another user to "mess with," view photos, take the camera, or otherwise touch it*.  If you see something illegal, you call the LEO and inform them.  This is no different than seeing someone illegally parked.  You inform law enforcement; you don't hotwire their car and drive it off. 




*There's a common exception to this if we're talking about a landowner discovering someone else's camera on their land; in that case it is perfectly acceptable for the landowner to remove the camera and turn it in to the LEOs.  Of note, it is illegal for the landowner to keep the camera. Yes, I realize a lot of folks ignore this and keep the camera, but that doesn't make it legal.  Again, the vehicle analogy is sound: if someone leaves their car on your property without your permission, you can call and have it towed away but you obviously don't get to keep their car. 

[Seahawk12]

Hmm.
By the logic of the op, if you come across his vehicle parked on public land you're welcome to use it.
Come across a camp site on public land you're welcome to take a nap in the sleeping bag and use the stove to warm your socks.
As long as nobody is around at the time.
Because that means it has all been abandoned......kind of.
Yeah. No.
I think I'll stick to being a reasonable American and leave other peoples property alone.

[Oh Mah]

is it electronic? yes

is it data? yes

are we talking about without authority? yes

Now lets flip this to other game cam owners since it is being brought in..

What happens if a hunter goes out finds some bios game cam recording stuff for research?do you think the dept. will or will not call it theft,or vandalism or something or do you think they will just pat you on the back and say good for you you didn't hurt anything?

[yakimanoob]

The only division I see is a side discussion on the varying levels of civility with which people are choosing to respond.  I don't think that discussion is going to split the hunting community though.

It might not split the community, but it sure does explode and end with the mods shutting things down sometimes 

As others have noted, I do think this is an interesting discussion, and I know for a fact that @shallowforks is not a troll.  Go look at his other threads.  The fact that he's entertaining an idea that seems obviously wrong to some in no way disqualifies him from asking about it, or justifies anyone claiming he lacks character, upbringing, etc. 

[CedarPants]

The only division I see is a side discussion on the varying levels of civility with which people are choosing to respond.  I don't think that discussion is going to split the hunting community though.

It might not split the community, but it sure does explode and end with the mods shutting things down sometimes 

As others have noted, I do think this is an interesting discussion, and I know for a fact that @shallowforks is not a troll.  Go look at his other threads.  The fact that he's entertaining an idea that seems obviously wrong to some in no way disqualifies him from asking about it, or justifies anyone claiming he lacks character, upbringing, etc.

Well said.

[Cougartail]

Hmm.
By the logic of the op, if you come across his vehicle parked on public land you're welcome to use it.
Come across a camp site on public land you're welcome to take a nap in the sleeping bag and use the stove to warm your socks.
As long as nobody is around at the time.
Because that means it has all been abandoned......kind of.
Yeah. No.
I think I'll stick to being a reasonable American and leave other peoples property alone.

By law you can "camp" on public land for a set amount of days, ie leave what you own on public land. It is not abandoned until those days are past and the most important part.. a public property manager deems the private party property abandoned. Pretty simple from a legal standpoint.

[frazierw]

is it electronic? yes

is it data? yes

are we talking about without authority? yes

Now lets flip this to other game cam owners since it is being brought in..

What happens if a hunter goes out finds some bios game cam recording stuff for research?do you think the dept. will or will not call it theft,or vandalism or something or do you think they will just pat you on the back and say good for you you didn't hurt anything?

The RCW loses me at intent.  If you just view pictures on a game camera i dont believe you are breaking any law.  I also think you could clear the SD card and you would never be convicted of any crime.  I also believe it is morally wrong to do so, but legally speaking, i think you would be in the clear.

[boneaddict]

I think generally speaking, there is a lot of grey area regarding regulation, specific to trail cam use, probably purposely so.

[SuperX]

I would think digital copyright laws apply if someone took a copy of the pictures

[pianoman9701]

I would think digital copyright laws apply if someone took a copy of the pictures

You'd have to show a financial gain from the use of those pictures. Since wild game can't be sold, you couldn't put a monetary value on it if someone killed an animal from stealing the pictures. I've been a lawyer on the internet for some time now.