Conconully area...Where did the deer go?

[stickslinger]

Unfortunately it is just like politics, the decisions will be influenced by the majority of un educated. There are too many people in this state that dont want to potentially give up any days in there season no matter how bad the heard numbers are........ (definition of retardation is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result)

[NOCK NOCK]

I see a lot of irony in this thread. Folks want more/ better deer......for what?, so we can go shoot them.
Not happy with deer numbers in WA so I’ll go hunt another state.
Another irony is seems that a lot of folks that have killed a lot of big bucks are the ones who are most adamant about saving the herds and calling for reduced opportunity.....hmmmm
If y’all continue to yearly take out the best breeders it’s not hard to see that is also part of the problem.

Have y’all forgot that hunting is more than killing a trophy buck every year?

It should be about family and friends enjoying the outdoors.......don’t need to kill a buck every year to do that.

[Skyvalhunter]

But it is nice to see the animals out there weather you shoot one or not. If it should be all about being in the outdoors with family and friends then I would call that camping and leave your gun at home and not even buy a Lisc, tag, special permit, etc.

[Mtnwalker]

I see a lot of irony in this thread. Folks want more/ better deer......for what?, so we can go shoot them.
Not happy with deer numbers in WA so I’ll go hunt another state.
Another irony is seems that a lot of folks that have killed a lot of big bucks are the ones who are most adamant about saving the herds and calling for reduced opportunity.....hmmmm
If y’all continue to yearly take out the best breeders it’s not hard to see that is also part of the problem.

Have y’all forgot that hunting is more than killing a trophy buck every year?

It should be about family and friends enjoying the outdoors.......don’t need to kill a buck every year to do that.

If I wanted to go hang out with friends and not see any deer I can do that all summer, it’s called CAMPING.

[CAMPMEAT]

There are some really nice mule deer bucks along highway 97 if you know someone who'll tell you where to look.....by Riverside.

[NOCK NOCK]

But it is nice to see the animals out there weather you shoot one or not. If it should be all about being in the outdoors with family and friends then I would call that camping and leave your gun at home and not even buy a Lisc, tag, special permit, etc.

I see a lot of irony in this thread. Folks want more/ better deer......for what?, so we can go shoot them.
Not happy with deer numbers in WA so I’ll go hunt another state.
Another irony is seems that a lot of folks that have killed a lot of big bucks are the ones who are most adamant about saving the herds and calling for reduced opportunity.....hmmmm
If y’all continue to yearly take out the best breeders it’s not hard to see that is also part of the problem.

Have y’all forgot that hunting is more than killing a trophy buck every year?

It should be about family and friends enjoying the outdoors.......don’t need to kill a buck every year to do that.

If I wanted to go hang out with friends and not see any deer I can do that all summer, it’s called CAMPING.


So, ya both saying we should all be able to kill bucks every year?

[Wunderlich33]

NOCK NOCK it has nothing to do with killing a trophy every year or harvesting a deer annually.  It has everything to do with our resource numbers, management of our resources, and overall opportunity that the Washington State Hunters are provided.  We fund the WDFW to manage these resources and poor management is all we see. Our herds are dramatically declining despite what the Bio's say and print. Our factual evidence has shown through field surveys by us hunters represent the bleak future we may have for hunting in Washington.

 We need to be heard... We need to figure out how we can do this together... 

   

[bigmacc]

 NOCK NOCK,  I,m only speaking for myself here, I have not purchased a deer tag in this state for 3 years now, I do go and help my grandkids though, Its just my little protest I guess. As far as your statement of "you don't have to kill a deer every year" you are right and I feel the same I enjoy getting out with my friends and family BUT, when we as hunters take time off work, spend money on equipment, gas, tags, lic., permits etc. etc. and put money into WDFW I think it is fair to expect a fair opportunity to kill an animal. Since the switch to WDFW our herds have not been a priority, other interests have moved ahead including predators. I think a lot of us look at the WDFW as the caretakers of our herds and quite frankly they have been neglected and mis managed since the switch. I,m old enough to remember how at least the Methow and Entiat herds were cash cows for lic. and tag sales, those herds were put on a pedestal, coddled over and brought in a lot of money for the Game Dept. back then, for a lack of better words, they put forth a "quality product" for their consumer base, baring the inevitable haymaker from Mother Nature here and there the deer herds flourished and were as healthy as they have ever been. Now days the WDFW has to many special interest groups to cater to and our deer herds have slid down the pole a long ways, once again for a lack of better words, they are not putting a "quality product" out there for its customer base, BUT they want us to pay more on top of what it already costs to take our families hunting. I know all about "its not about killing, its about hunting and time spent with family", I have had my grandkids with me over thew last 4 hunting seasons and each year we have passed on at least one small legal buck, but seeing deer is getting more scarce every year and its important for our young and future hunters to SEE animals whether they are bucks, does or fawns and every year there is less and less of all of them.

[MtnMuley]

NOCK NOCK it has nothing to do with killing a trophy every year or harvesting a deer annually.  It has everything to do with our resource numbers, management of our resources, and overall opportunity that the Washington State Hunters are provided.  We fund the WDFW to manage these resources and poor management is all we see. Our herds are dramatically declining despite what the Bio's say and print. Our factual evidence has shown through field surveys by us hunters represent the bleak future we may have for hunting in Washington.

 We need to be heard... We need to figure out how we can do this together... 

 

That's a very solid comment.

[Wunderlich33]

MtnMuley

Ive always enjoyed your thoughts and input you provide on this forum. You know better than most and have seen first hand the overall decline of our deer numbers.  I'm over in Wenatchee quite a bit... I'll PM you my number I would like to buy you a cup of coffee and we can brainstorm some ideas?

This invite is open for everyone... if anyone else is interested lets get a head count together and pick a date. I will make the arrangements.

-Jeff   

[MtnMuley]

 

[MonstroMuley]

But it is nice to see the animals out there weather you shoot one or not. If it should be all about being in the outdoors with family and friends then I would call that camping and leave your gun at home and not even buy a Lisc, tag, special permit, etc.

 

[DOUBLELUNG]

Lots of good discussion.  I'll throw out a few thoughts.

1.  WDFW won't change anything because they are unwilling to lose the revenue.  I'll call that one FALSE.  Almost any scenario that can be envisioned can be done in a revenue neutral or revenue positive manner.

2.  WDFW regularly surveys hunters about what they want, when it comes to deer hunting their most important criteria is: they want to hunt deer every year.  However, there is a steady, increasing trend in the minority of hunters willing to sacrifice some opportunity in order to have higher quality opportunities; when they become a majority there will be change.

3.  At least 35% of big game hunters residing in Washington don't hunt in Washington.  I believe some of them, what proportion I don't know, do buy licenses to apply for quality buck and/or bull permits. 

4.  Three point minimum general mule deer hunting has negligible impacts on the deer population.  It has other effects: reductions in mature buck escapement, especially in the resident (nonmigratory) herds; altered antler point configurations (more mature 2-points); increased wastage - 2 points shot and left.  However, with unlimited, over the counter general season deer hunting, it is a necessary evil for mule deer hunting.  As long as the does get bred - which is not a problem, pregnancy rates are high - 3-point minimum hunting is not limiting the population.

5.  I see a lot of merit in going to regional general licenses.  This allows everyone to hunt deer every year, but not multiple areas.  I would propose Western, East Cascades (including Klickitat), Northeast, Columbia Basin and Southeast, with any buck for blacktail and whitetail, and 3-point minimum for mule deer.  I think we would see a significant reduction in pressure on mule deer, with little increase in pressure on the other two species.

6.  Herd health ( = population size, fawn recruitment and postseason buck escapement) needs to be the highest priority, over Resource Allocation (equalizing harvest rates between user groups), and over additional opportunities for quality deer and buck deer permits, 2nd deer, antlerless, youth, senior, disabled, Master Hunter etc.  Herd health should be a metric measured by buck harvest trends and fawn recruitment (post season fawn abundance and end of winter fawn abundance).  When buck harvest is below x in a region, no permits and no antlerless harvest except site-specific damage control.  When buck harvest is between x and y, 10% of the previous season buck harvest can be allocated for antlerless permits.  When between y and z, 20%.  Above z, 30% or higher as determined by district and regional game managers.  Modified as specified based on fawn numbers and survival. 

A minimum buck escapement of 12-18 per 100 does, per species, in each region.  If a region cannot maintain that escapement, reduce season length and/or cap the number of licenses and allocate by drawing.

This strategy could be implemented with existing data already collected by the Department.  Limited doe harvest would be set by established criteria, and allocated toward current objectives BUT determined by herd health rather than the current competing demands of different interest groups. 

This is one experienced game bios opinion.

7.  Limited research dollars for game management would be allocated first to regions where buck harvest is below x, buck escapement is not being met, and fawn recruitment is low. 

8.  These specific regional objectives would be powerful tools in demonstrating where recruitment and survival are limiting.  Not meeting specific objectives are powerful tools for land and population managers to implement necessary restrictions (closing winter ranges to motorized entry, liberalized predator hunting e.g. higher annual limits on bears, justification for allowing regional cougar hound hunts, increasing cougar quotas, wolf hunts/control), and allocating limited habitat improvement funds. 

9.  Multiseason permits (I'm not a fan btw, even though I have one currently and have had others) would be stratified by region or remain statewide, but would be excluded from Regions not meeting buck escapement or x harvest levels as described above.

[NOCK NOCK]

     Great input as always DL

[bobcat]

I like Doublelung's number 5.  That just might work.


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