My 50 Cal Full Bore Project

[reelamin]

Ok, just to qualify this...I'M A FREAK!!!!   I over think, over do, over process, and pretty much make a mountain out of a mole hill.  Regardless I am on a quest to make a 300yd elk killer muzzle loader.  What are the requirements....?  Goal is MOA accuracy and 1000lb minimum FT LBS on target.  Maximum yardage determined by ft lb of energy.  I also want to qualify this is geared towards elk....because if you can kill an elk.....you can kill a deer at half that distance. 

I figured out real quick I needed more accuracy and better sights to kill a bull at 300yds.   NOT interested in a debate on if I should be trying to kill a bull at 300yds, but happy to discuss and work on how to kill one at 300yds!!   I found out instantly...my rear peep with factory front on a Knight Big Horn was not going to work.   The front was so huge I was limited to about a 200yd shot.   I am not interested in guessing where the bullet will land. 

I do a lot of research and testing to find out what my rifle will do.  My rifle is at best a 1.5"/100yd with a scope...about a 3" with the factory front and a Wilson FP peep rear.   Not even close to what I need.  These are full loads...not reduced...requires full load to meet the ft lb on target requirement.  Shooting 300gr minimum bullet weight.  My stock rifle is not accurate enough, but after bedding the action it tightens up.  (Happy to cover bedding an action...super easy...and anyone can do it.)

I test lots of different combinations of Sabot and bullets....bottom line she wont shoot under 1.5" at the velocity I want.   I now need under 1"/100yds at max velocity and full bore seems to offer that potential.  So does knurling bullets to stick to sabots for under sized bullets.  BUUUT...I want a brake on it...so full bore is he way to go. 

Please give me input both critical and positive.  Looking for any information available, but I would ask you to clarify if this what you have done or what you have heard.  Easy to tell someone how to fix something you read about on the internet......not so easy to spend hours and major bucks to find out yourself.   Not trying to be a *censored*.....just calling out the obvious of todays world.

Here we go!!!!

[reelamin]

Here is what I have so far.   Several 50cal bullets I will knurl to fit my bore.  Fury, Thor, and Hornady are the true full bore bullets.  The others are actually .500 bullet and require knurling to fit the bore.  My bore is a tight .501...probably a real .5005 its so tight.  Anyway...we will make it work....running some bullets I find out real quick some realities. 

Nothing..and I mean nothing will fit down the bore at .501.....must be .500 to start down.  I can drive a Thor .501 down with a quick jam on the starter because the bullet is .500 with only a tiny fraction of the skirt a .501.  Any true full bore .501 will not start unless the diameter at the base is .500 and increases to .501 or .502 quickly.  In reality......she is a .501 bore period but can fit some .502 down with lots of pressure. 

[whacker1]

what are your plans for barrel length, and sight picture?.  i.e. longer barrel gives you a longer platform between rear and front sight. 

https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands/lyman/sights/target-front-sights/series-17a-insert-set.html
are you going to move to a lyman globe front sight with insert?
or do you have other plans?

[Samloffler]

I see you have a scope in the picture. Will you be hunting with that or is it just for load development? That Lyman globe with the fine cross hairs is probably the best sight picture you can get with irons, but you'll have to have nice conditions to be able to see the damn thing.

You didn't mention powder, but you will have better control and repeatability with loose powder. I've been happy enough with pellets so I haven't tried, but black horn 209 is supposed to be about the best there is. I would weight it on a powder scale instead of by volume in a powder measure.

As for full bore bullets, I'm guessing you've seen that Thor has the sample pack so you can pick the exact size you need for your bore.

[Karl Blanchard]

Tagging for later

[ctwiggs1]

tag

[Reidus]

you need a muzzleloader with a custom. .45 cal barrel. High bc 300gr bullet at 2400fps and it'll shoot sub moa no problem with bh209.

[reelamin]

I spent some time determining my actual bore diameter.  I had some full bore FURY, Thor, and hand knurled with files a .500 Speer.  I used a NOE resizer on the knurled bullets.   I'm sure my barrel is barely .501 and probably even under.  If I knurled the entire side of the bullet to the base I was not going to get a .501 in the barrel.   I ended up using the side of one file and knurling the top half then I could get a .501 down.  I could even get a .502 with a lot of pressure, and that was because he raised area was small and pliable.  The .501 Thor would go but only with a good smack to force the skirt and the body was .500 so it would fit.  The Fury .501 would go but was fairly snug (got very tight after fouled barrel) and no way could I get a .502 Fury more then .25" down the barrel. 

I went to my nice bench area to shoot sight in the scope (Used only for load development).  Yes, I will be adding a Lyman Globe front sight, but for now only using a 12x scope.  I brought some different bullets to try and get started on the development.   It zeroed back where I needed it with two shots at 50yds and two shots at 100yds.   I did not account for how cold it was, and did not bring any heaters, gloves, or what I needed.   I was not planning on load testing, but I felt good enough to give one bullet a try.

I went with the .501 Fury 325gr using a .521x.060 fiber wad first.  I used 120gr of BH209 and a Winchester Primer.  1st and second shot were 7" apart and the 3rd was less than 2" away from the 1st.  WTH? all shots felt good at the shot...this is not a good start.   I only had six of the Fury left and was not going to try them back to back.  I just packed up and went home to get organized and ready to dive in fully.   Oh, and order more of the .501 Fury bullets. 

I forgot to mention the .501 Fury were super hard to seat with a fouled bore.  As in REALLY HARD to seat.  I wiped the bore between each shot with a windex patch twice.  It would require a starter ball on top of your ramrod or handle like my range rod to seat a bullet.  This may be a .500 bore after fouling....that might work out great. 

The bullet pics are my knurled Speer, Fury .501, and the target pic is just the backer with the holes in it.  I will answer the other questions later this evening. 

[reelamin]

My current sight is a 12x scope for load development.  For hunting I had the stock front and Williams FP rear peep.  The scope allows the precision aiming I need to know really how accurate it is.  This gun is just a stock Bighorn with 26" barrel, but I bedded the action and floated the barrel.  When done I have a Lyman Globe with some Shaver inserts and a low front ramp to mount it on. 

I have several different powders to try.  So far this gun is just as accurate with T73F as BH209.  I prefer the BH209 as I get slightly more velocity and it is super clean shooting.  Again, the only way I can get this to work is maximum velocity or my energy drops off too fast.  This gun shoots 1" with reduced powder and even a full load 265gr Lehigh, but I want more bullet weight.

I have tried the Thor, and have more to try with some changes.  it was less accurate than my Sabot rounds with just the bullet.  The Thor diameter is only a very small area just at the bottom of the skirt and the body is .500.  My plan is to try the Thor again with a base wad, base wad and body knurling. 

I may end up with a 45cal gun as that is the caliber with the most full bore shooting done.  50cal is useable in more states for hunting big game so I'm starting with that.  Plus, I already have a 50cal to mess with.

[Reidus]

There's a lot better options for .45 cal full bore dia.  with most of the muzzleloader bullets, the bc is so low that they lose velocity quick. With some of the higher bc 45 cal bullets available, you can almost double your energy at extended ranges just due to the bc of the bullet.

It is possible to use a muzzlebrake shooting sabots. They are a pia to install since it is like an extension of the bore. there's brakes designed specifically for this.

[reelamin]

Today I tried different bullets because the Fury .501 was so hard to seat with a fouled bore.   The .500 slide down easy and do not appear to be getting much if any grip on the rifling.  I had sized a lot of my different bullets after knurling them with a file.  All were sized to .501 and tried in the fouled bore, that had been wiped with windex patch twice and BH209 powder used.  NOPE not going to happen if the sized area is any more than just the skirt.   

The Thor, and Hornady FPB (resized to .501 as the skirt was .507) would slide down fine with reasonable pressure.  As soon as I tried even the same bullets with file knurling I could not get them down more than .5".  The Hornady FPB does not appear to have much of a jacket at all.  The file cut right through it to the lead core, and it appears to be a plated not jacketed bullet.

Any suggestions on the full bore?  Going to try shooting .500 with base wad and see what happens next. 

[Sabotloader]

I currently am using the Barnes ML Expanders knurled up to fit my bore.  These are sold as bullets for a 54 cal. with sabot. The bullet is .500x275




Problem is they would not be good for long range because of the open hollow point.

[reelamin]

I currently am using the Barnes ML Expanders knurled up to fit my bore.  These are sold as bullets for a 54 cal. with sabot. The bullet is .500x275

Problem is they would not be good for long range because of the open hollow point.

Sabotloader....I have some....I will try knurling with a pipe cutter.  The file created too much area at .501 and I could not get them in the barrel.  The reduced area might be the ticket.   Have no clue what I will do to size the other bullets with a couple bands if it works.   Sure not as sleek/higher BC as some, but if it will shoot at max load, it will get to the 300yd goal at least according to my ballistic program.  I emailed NOE and trying to see if I can get a sizing die between .500 and .501.   Will just keep doing what I can...I'm already way into it.  I'm trying to avoid an adjustable sizing die.

[Sabotloader]

I currently am using the Barnes ML Expanders knurled up to fit my bore.  These are sold as bullets for a 54 cal. with sabot. The bullet is .500x275

Problem is they would not be good for long range because of the open hollow point.

Sabotloader....I have some....I will try knurling with a pipe cutter.  The file created too much area at .501 and I could not get them in the barrel.  The reduced area might be the ticket.   Have no clue what I will do to size the other bullets with a couple bands if it works.   Sure not as sleek/higher BC as some, but if it will shoot at max load, it will get to the 300yd goal at least according to my ballistic program.  I emailed NOE and trying to see if I can get a sizing die between .500 and .501.   Will just keep doing what I can...I'm already way into it.  I'm trying to avoid an adjustable sizing die.

These bullets should slide your current bore very easily.  So using the cutter it will not take much.  You can see the index marks on mine.  When I put the bullet in and had the blade on the bullet I indexed the knob. the second index marks the spot that I do not want to go any deeper.

Barnes has a 50x325XPB but it takes more energy (velocity) to open it than does the MZ-Expander

It has a higher BC and will shoot longer ranges but doubt very much it would open up.

[floatinghat]

My summarized thoughts

1000ftlb is low on energy for a bull elk but that can be mitigated by good shot placement and bullet performance.

Lead conical, slow rainbow to the target otherwise you will be challenge to find the velocity to expand a bullet with the BC needed.

300 is a looong shot with open sights on game in the field.

For a front sight I would suggest a post or a lyman 17 with insert of your choice.

Perhaps a soft lead conical out of a sabot or paper patch if you can stablize it? That would allow you to push the lead harder?


Looking forward to seeing what you come up with to solve your challenge.



If you want muzzleloader does smokeless count? That opens a whole new conversation (without me talking).

[reelamin]

My summarized thoughts

1000ftlb is low on energy for a bull elk but that can be mitigated by good shot placement and bullet performance.

Lead conical, slow rainbow to the target otherwise you will be challenge to find the velocity to expand a bullet with the BC needed.

300 is a looong shot with open sights on game in the field.

For a front sight I would suggest a post or a lyman 17 with insert of your choice.

Perhaps a soft lead conical out of a sabot or paper patch if you can stablize it? That would allow you to push the lead harder?

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with to solve your challenge.

If you want muzzleloader does smokeless count? That opens a whole new conversation (without me talking).

Thanks for the input and everything you mention is a legit consideration.  1000lb is a solid number with a good broadside side shot, not quartering or long penetration needed.  Yes it will require the right bullet to expand or create a good wound channel and not just pass through.

300 is a long shot, but with proper sights, accurate rifle, proper environmental, good technique, its not as far as many think.   I have several center fires I could put just about anyone behind and hit a milk jug at 300yds.  I do it with the best shooter in my hunters ed class.  Have not had one miss yet. (Yes totally different application, but no different in concept)

Lead or Hard Cast is an option for sure, but is a last option at this time.   I'm really trying to get away from Sabot if possible and that is mainly to install a brake.  I can handle the recoil, but I want a brake so I'm trying it. 

I have a Lyman front globe with some Saver inserts sitting in the drawer just waiting until I'm done with this process.  The factory front fiber optic is huge and limits accurate shooting for me to 200yds max. 

On the project:  More sizing and checking how I can make bullets fit properly.  NOE does not make any mid sized bushings only in .001 increments.  My bore diameter I'm pretty sure is right between .500 and .501.  Bottom line...adjustable sizing die ordered so I can get the correct bullet/bore fit.   Not a huge deal, but we are on hold for another week.  I might try knurling my Barnes TEZ for better sabot grip and see if it helps or not.

[JimmyHoffa]

I wouldn't be as concerned with energy numbers with a .50 as I would a small cal rifle.  The momentum of the bullet will be important, and with the heavy bullets you aren't as dependent on speed squaring.  Also, once you are around .35 cal and up the bullet expansion isn't as critical as with sub-.35 cal.

[reelamin]

I'm still waiting for my sizing die.  Based on the tracking number it will be next week before it shows up.   Add in Christmas and what else should I expect ordering this time of year.   So I knurled (file technique) a lot of bullets to get ready.  Needless to say my hand is bruised and it is not easy to get them larger.  I was consistently able to gain at least .002 on all of them.  The solid copper Barnes and Thor by far were the hardest to gain on.   So, I'm still waiting to try some more bullets/combinations.

[Reidus]

Looks like fun!

I think a smokeless muzzleloader is the way to go. They shoot blackhorn no problem so legal everywhere except Idaho and oregon I belive. Probably not the cheapest but they shoot really well and handle the pressure well.

This is 3 shots from a 45 cal shooting blackhorn 209 at 100yds with a kinetic performance 302 bomb in the 2400fps ballpark. over 1800 ft-lbs of energy at 300yds and 19in of drop when zeroed 1" high at 100yds. Just need to mount a front sight on it so I can use it in WA.

[reelamin]

I agree 45 is the caliber with the most options.   If I go 45 then of course the best option is one that will take huge charges of powder/high pressure.  I'll try with a 50 for now and if that doesn't work I'll go for a 45 later.  The only down side is more money spent, but the upside is well worth it.    FYI...if your shooting 2400fps with that bullet your carrying 1800lbs to just shy of 400yds and still hitting the minimum 1600fps for expansion.   Do they really cost $2.00 each?  If they do that puts them out of what I want to spend on any bullet.  I plan to get some more testing done next week, and sure as heck the weather will turn miserable instead of nice like now.   

[Reidus]

it gets pretty costly by the time you buy a barrel, breech plug, primer modules, bullet sizing die, donor action and get someone to do the machining. I think you can do a remage style prefit for a rem 700 though. Costly but, the ballistics and accuracy are amazing!

Yes, the 302 bombs cost $2 ea. I can shoot about any
.451 or .452 bullet. I've shot hornady 240 xtp pistol bullets and 300 sst's. The main reason to shoot the bombs or similar is the bc. Just because of the higher bc, they have about double the energy at 500yds. With a scope it's pretty much like shootin a single shot rifle.

If you do end up going 45 cal, one of the cheapest guns I've seen is the cva optima v2 in 45-70 that have been converted to smokeless ml. Hankins custom rifles sells them for  $700-$800. I'd imagine they'd make a great blackhorn 209 rifle and get your accuracy/energy to 300yds.

[Boss .300 winmag]

Good luck.👍

[usmc74]

Are you worried that with max loads on a bighorn (plunger gun) you might get blowback from the ign system?

I remember Sabotloaders pix.

[reelamin]

Are you worried that with max loads on a bighorn (plunger gun) you might get blowback from the ign system?

I remember Sabotloaders pix.

Nope....I have run well past max loads in it with BP and I don't have any issue with the amount of blow back.  Yes it is there but not bothersome or worrisome with the 209 in FPJ.  No issue with black and caps...but BH209 and caps causes lots of cap fragments.  I don't use BH209 with caps in it anymore.  *(Thanks Sabotloader)

So my stuff showed up early, so I went to work to find a better fit.   t was exactly as I expected exactly between to even thousandths.   Go figure, but that is why they have adjustable sizing dies.  No time to finish it up as other things took some priority, but hopefully this weekend and next week I can do some shooting

[reelamin]

Here are a couple pics of my file knurling and the commercial knurling.  The Fury bullet (star tip folded in the other is a 350gr Sierra) uses a machine style knurler (I will get one of the machines if this project works out) and you can see the different surface area.  The file knurling is harder to push down due to more surface area, but not so hard as unable to in hunting situation.   That being said I just wonder what one will shoot more accurately. 

The bullets with a large cupped base would jam in the sizer, but I put a MMP base wad and it pushed them right through.  (Thanks Sabotloader!!)  So, I loaded up a bunch of tubes and am ready to go.  Just have to deliver a buddy his axe (I love re-doing old axes...well all but the older the better!!!)   in the morning and then going to burn some powder. 

[reelamin]

Today was another learning experience for sure.  I thought I had it dialed in, but she slapped me straight real quick.  Went to where I could shoot and set up to shoot my test loads.  (Every thing is with 120gr BH209)  The first one was a Fury sized to .5005, and they loaded fine and shot decent.  Then I used a diffrent base wad (MMP) and it was starting to get hard to load but tolerable still.   Did not shoot so well, but put those two close together so holds promise.  Went to load a Barnes sized to .5005 and negative not going, so I give it a few love taps thinking it will slide once its fully in.  Nope, stuck and my tools were in the shop...because I knew I had it dialed in.   Pack up head home and clear it out, so I thought I would try another bullet and same thing.  I tried the Thor I knurled (Thor body is .500) and sized to .5005, and got it down farther but still stuck!  AAAAGGGHHHHH you have got to be kidding me.   Oh well I have some more Fury's to try ready to go, so run back to the range (with tools) and load the first one and its tight but fits.   Different target but it is right in the same group as the previous targets. (Notice the yellow backer as I stacked the targets)  Go to load the second one and its tight, so I give it some love taps and she slides more.  Put the range rod and it wont move, so I am putting a lot of weight on it and break the dang end.   WTH???!!!!  You are kidding right?? 

So I drive it out and get everything going again.  I go with a bullet I know will fit because the body is small and the skirt is sized to (350gr Hornady FB with a MMP base)  The clouds move in so no chrono speed and the group is terrible.  3 shots strung laterally about 8"!  I did not expect it to shoot well because only the very base makes contact with the rifling.  Screw it...I load up and go back to the shop.  I clean the gun, test fit and only the fury really feel correct.  I guess my excitement over rode the actual fit with the file knurling.   The surface area is a lot more with the file, and they are too tight at .5005 after a few shots!!  come outside after getting it all done...and blue skys but not enough time to get back to the range. 

So, back at it tomorrow with .5005 sized Fury and a few .500 other bullets.  Hope I get some shooting in. 

[HntnFsh]

Might just be the picture, but that bullet your holding in your fingers looks badly bulged on the right side. The knurling doesn't look very uniform. Where are you taking your measurements?

[HntnFsh]

Looked again and I  think part of what I'm seeing is the tip of your finger. But it still doesn't look right.

[reelamin]

Might just be the picture, but that bullet your holding in your fingers looks badly bulged on the right side. The knurling doesn't look very uniform. Where are you taking your measurements?

No it is bulged....i found that out this morning.   No question from getting it stuck and from knocking it out of the barrel.   i didnt even thing of I should have read your post before heading out this morning.  So obviously today was another day of frustration.  The first Fury to load I grabbed the used Fury out of pure luck and of course it stuck.  No I am furious as I checked it last night (new sized not bulged) Why did I not resize or check it....another lesson learned for sure??   So I just grip and rip with pliers (was trying to save them as they are expensive) and huck it into the bushes. 

So I load up my 290 TEZ hunting load, and it shoots right at the group size it should.  I had lightly file knurled them for better grip on the sabot.  No change noted.   Well at least I haven't screwed up the gun totally!!  So what the heck lets try a .500 Barnes MZ with a base wad, and as I load it I know it will not shoot well.   First round is a foot away and is starting to keyhole as it hits the target next to the one I was aiming at.  That does not even bother me as I knew it would not.   So, back to the shop to re-size the few Fury I have left (more arriving any day) so I dont stick anymore.

Any ideas?  Opinions (outiside of im wasiting my time and money..lol), Suggestions?  I was thinking leave the sizing lube on the file knurled bullets and see if they will seat.

[Karl Blanchard]

I cant believe I'm saying this right now as I'm a self proclaimed hater but have you tried just a good old fashioned powerbelt? Or any of the aerotips? I know you aretrying to hit some min numbers, but a king off your powder charge a bit may help accuracy (at least in my experience). Numbers on paper are just that. Those big heavy bullets have a lot of Pop even at 300 yards.

[reelamin]

I cant believe I'm saying this right now as I'm a self proclaimed hater but have you tried just a good old fashioned powerbelt? Or any of the aerotips? I know you aretrying to hit some min numbers, but a king off your powder charge a bit may help accuracy (at least in my experience). Numbers on paper are just that. Those big heavy bullets have a lot of Pop even at 300 yards.

Thanks for the input.   No I have not, but everything is an option.   Yes, my gun shoots even better when I back off the powder.  But I have to give up about 300fps/200lbs.   Yes, numbers on paper dont always equal real world performance both positive and negative.  The good part is those numbers are identifiable quickly, and I dont have to shoot my own or find enough people who actually know their true kill details.  I will back off the powder, but only after I know I cant make it work at max velocity.  The margins are much more noticeable giving up 15-20 percent where center fire usually only give up 5 percent

Another forum gave me info on "Springback" for sizing.  I just came in from the shop and all the bullet types I sized measure differently.  I was aware of it, but until you experience it you never actually know quite as well  how it affects things.  Again, I just learned something more.  They said I needed to size every single bullet type specifically to fit, and the adjustable die almost always requires different settings for different bullets.   Multiple sizing of the same bullet can eliminate the spring back   I even got a little springback on my Fury bullets, so I sized them again just now and will size them again in the morning. 

I need to leave my die set where it is for now until my new batch of Fury show up.  Then I will start adjusting the die to every bullet type to get the correct fit after any springback.   I cant wait for my next center fire project....so much easier!!!!

[Karl Blanchard]

Talk to text and not proof reading strikes again

*Backing off. Not a king 

I've seen a few deer killed at or north of 300 (one was over 370) and both animals there was bone structure involved.  Bullets had zero issue crushing bone and reaching vitals.  Both were 100gr powder charges.  Deer are definitely not elk though.  As I'm sure you know, your sights will be your biggest limiter for accuracy. 

[reelamin]

Took out the last of the Fury bullets I have in hand, and had been re-sized four times at the set die setting.  They were tight but I was able to seat them with decent force.  I still thought they were tight, but I dont have anyone helping me so I can actually know.   Anyway, I shot a group and it was right in where I had been before 1.5"...not great but consistent.   Started in with the next group and round #5 for the day stuck.   I JUST ABOUT FLIPPED THE F OUT!!!   I dont break things when I get mad....but I was FURIOUS TIMES 1 MILLION and it was very close to loosing my brains!!  I literally had to sit in the rig and get my crap together before I did something I would regret later.   

I stewed on in for a while...loaded all my stuff up...drove back home and adjusted the sizing die.  I had been waiting for my new Fury bullets to show up, but I was done with stuck bullets and stuff not working.  I twisted in three more lines/adjustments smaller and they fit well.  I could not even get them to register different on my micrometer, but they definitely fit the bore better than before.  Go gack to the range and all three load exactly the same and pretty darn easy.  I stack two on top of each other, and feel like I pulled the 3rd to the right.   I know people say things to cover, but I knew I pulled it right and sure enough it was to the right of the first two.   BUUUUT...the group was under an inch at .8, and I KNOW it is capable of much more but I'm out of bullets.  Velocity is less than I want...but not by much...and I still have not tweaked or tried some T7.  It shot amazingly well!

So I will just adjust the die for each bullet type and check it for accuracy.  I was trying to shoot like my center fire and take several different bullets to the range at a time.  I know where the die was, so I can easily just turn it back or to the setting I need.  I was just worried about getting the setting back where I needed it.  Anyone have any experience with the adjustable dies....are they dead nuts when you set them back or does it take tweaking every single time?  Overall was a much better day!

[reelamin]

Today was not bad all things considered.   I sized some Hornady FTX300gr after I had knurled them with a file, and tried a couple different base wads.  I fitted the first one and it was spot on, so I sized a total of nine I had knurled with a file.  Loading at the range was way different with variable loading pressure.  The groups were really good excluding one flier.
 
The variable in loading pressure was caused by the amount of location of the knurling, and there is just no way I can be perfectly consistent with the file.  It works...but not precise and repeatable for what I am wanting/trying to do.  With one flier out of three with similar groups and the shots felt good...no way possible to exclude the different loading pressure.  The chronograph showed some really wide ES I never see with Sabot's or the properly sized Fury.  Yep, you guessed it...ordering a knurler tomorrow....WTH...it's only money right?   

[reelamin]

My new batch of Fury 320gr showed up.  I noticed they had two different type/look to the knurling.  I sized them, and it required two more marks tighter for a good fit in my fouled barrel.   I separated them by knurling, and shot the diamond pattern first and I was super happy.  All shots felt good, but it was still a .8 group.   I loaded up the squared knurling and it required a little more pressure to seat it.  The next target over was set the opposite and it looked like a good shot.  When I over layed the targets it almost matched the 3rd shot.  So my POI was the same and the OA group size was no larger with the 4th shot. 

Rifle is getting cleaned and knurler is on the way.  Regardless I have a good full bore load with the 320 Fury.  So, now the rest of the shooting is less stressful for me. 

Anyone have any experience sizing the Fury?  Is there a need to adjust slightly with each new batch?  The last ones I sized ranged in diameter from Fury .501-.503 as those were the "test fit" bullets I had ordered.  Wonder if that had something to do with the die adjustment?

[reelamin]

My Ulitmate Cannelure/Knurler showed up Friday and I got it mounted up and working today.  What an incredible piece of equipment.  I mean this thing is made to the detail and quality in the extreme!!  This thing has every detail covered and even the rubber bands for shipping are high quality.  I swapped in the knurling tool (photo of cannelure and knurler installed).  Every moving part has a brass tipped set screw that holds perfectly just barely snugged with fingers.  It allowed .001 adjustments easily.  Also allows to leave the bullet base at .500 for easy starting.  This is one tool that the price is well worth the quality and how well it worked.   I only knurled two different types of bullets, as I will only work with one at a time here on out.  Easy to use and does not require huge amount of pressure on the lever, the cam leverage is huge and easily knurls even the solid Barnes.  Contact Kevin if you have any questions or want one.  Kevin Knight <chuckbuster@hotmail.com>

[reelamin]

I finally had some time and the weather was cooperating as best as we have had.  Sunny so the chrono would work but breezy.   Worst case wind would account for .5-.8” max of movement.  I headed to the range with some more test bullets and combinations.   Some of those loads may cause issue with people.  Please don’t go off topic and get into a debate on MAX LOADS.  I’m a believer in we are all adults and can make our decisions and reap the rewards or suffer the consequences. 

I have ruined many bullets with my file knurling then my knurling tool and trying to get them sized to fit.  I found I did not have to put lots of pressure on the tool.   Basically, I knurled them to .503”, but it was heavy and lots of metal moved out.   That totally messed up my sizing as with more metal/contact/available resistance, the initial knurling/sizing matters.   So, I had to get everything sized back to .500 or as close as it would go.   I had or order a new sizing bushing for my NOE kit, and after it arrived I sized the FTX back to .500.  With the spring back it was a good fit and loaded well. 

The 300 FTX both with and without a base wad shot the same groups but different velocity.  With a base wad actually show worse by a little and velocity was similar.  On the Fury I am loosing noticeable amounts of FPS without the base wad.  Again, the groups are listed as they were shot, but I will give them .5” of wiggle room due to the breeze.   Even with the conditions the accuracy/velocity was not on par with the Fury.  300FTX has one more try and then it’s off the list for the Big Horn.   I didn’t take pictures of every target, but I shot 21 rounds and it’s time to clean it.   

I was going to shoot some with T73F and the first round loaded great.  I then swabbed the barrel (don’t swab for 209) and promptly stuck the next bullet.  All the bullets with BH209 and no swabbing loaded fine.  So, T73F, or any similar requiring swabbing is out because I am not going to have different sized bullets for each powder.  With no sabot’s my rifle seems to be liking the 1925-2000fps range.

300FTX:  120 BH209, W-W 209
Heavy .503 then sized to .500/NOE Die, .518x.60 base, 2004fps, 2.520”/2 – 1”
Heavy .503 then sized to .500/NOE Die, Bare, 2010fps, 2.060”/2-.250”

Fury 320 .503 sized to fit on adjustable die:
120 BH209, W-W 209, Bare, 1895fps, 1.441”
125 BH209, W-W 209, .521x.60 base, 2005fps, 1.910”, horizontal string. 
130 BH209, W-W 209, Bare, 2010fps, 1.715”

When I have horizontal or vertical stringing it’s caused by two things.  Equipment issue or environmental, with the breeze I’m leaning toward environment.  I will shoot that one again for sure, and the FTX with no base wad.  Also based on where the other bullets were landing I have to shoot the FTX one more time as a high flyer does not fit. 

Also, took one day to hunt the cat after a snow but no tracks. Have to work the new pup for 4-5 birds a day too. Maybe I have too many hobbies? ha...negative ghost rider...that pattern is not full

[reelamin]

Update:
I hate to call it a setback, but I have spent a lot of time trying to fix my screwed up knurling.  I just have too much centerfire and not "making a bullet" experience.  I think everything is going to the same, but it never seems to work out that way. The variances in the file knurling I figured would not matter because when I re-sized them they would all fit.  NEGATIVE!!! It all depends on how much, depth, jacket thickness, internal lead hardness, full copper, of surface area that is knurled.  One little bit of difference completely changes the sizing needed so it can be loaded.  Then add in I had file knurled a lot of bullets to try to get ahead and just size and load them.  Again, NEGATIVE...all I did was create huge amounts of delays, stuck bullets, trips to and from the range, and frustration to the extreme many many days on end.   

Then I got a nice precision knurling tool, and promptly did basically the same thing.   I knurled several bullets and they looked amazing....then started sizing and trying to shoot them.  Same frustration I was pulling way too much metal out and could not get them sized down to fit.   I have several times considered saying screw this...shoot the Fury and move on to other projects.  So, I have kept at it and figuring things out how to make it work.   I was trying to save all the bullets I had by sizing them back down and re-doing them.  There was a lot of coin being thrown away so I continued to try to save them.  SCREW IT I THREW ALL OF THE REMAINING ONES INTO A BAG AND WILL GIVE THEM AWAY OR THROW THEM OUT!!!!

I started with fresh new bullets and set the knurler to raise .001 in diameter and .300 in knurling width.  I sized one bullet at a time and it took a couple sizing die adjustments to find the proper fit.   I then knurled and sized a second one at the last die setting and it fit the first time.  I did it with a third and when it also fit I felt comfortable they will all fit now.  I hope I have it figured out...well at least for two bullets I do.  Every bullet is different just a little bit, and if it is in the wrong area I'm screwed and start again.  Then work changed my schedule so I go go work in the dark and get off when it's dark.  So I have to wait for days off to do any shooting.  Oh well summer is getting here and soon enough I can shoot any day.

Here are all the .500 (file knurled and machine knurled) that I will send to anyone who wants them.  Otherwise I am throwing them out.  Figured maybe someone shooting a .54 can use them for practice or what ever.