Mule Deer Poaching - Fur Fish Game Magazine

[Alpine Mojo]

On page 5 of the December issue of FFG they report on a 6 year study in south-central Oregon where the number of illegally poached mule deer exceeded the number of mule deer taken legally.   If that is true then I would figure WA isn't far behind as we are right next door, geographically and politically.  Anyone have any insight on the statistics for Washington State?

[Rainier10]

I have heard estimates of 2 poached for every 1 taken legally in Washington in some areas.  I don't have a study to back that up, just rumblings I have heard.

Poaching is a huge problem in Washington.

[elkboy]

We need to put pressure on the court system to hand down sentences that will actually fit the crime. We also need to out pressure on the Legislature to earmark funding for wildlife enforcement. And I do mean earmark funding, so that DFW has no choice but to allocate those funds to wildlife officers, vehicles, etc.

[Alpine Mojo]

Those are insane numbers!  There can't be that many dishonest people in this world.  But I have been wrong before.

[WSU]

Think how easy it would be to get away with it?  Middle of the night, no season going on so no reason for enforcement to be around, etc.  Damn near the only way to get caught would be to get pulled over on the way home.

And, courts don't care.  They care far more about drugs and DUI than some deer that got shot in the woods.

[bigtex]

We also need to out pressure on the Legislature to earmark funding for wildlife enforcement. And I do mean earmark funding, so that DFW has no choice but to allocate those funds to wildlife officers, vehicles, etc.

Already done in WA

[Rainier10]

I am guessing that I have been involved in at least 40 deer harvested and 20 elk harvested and only had 3 checked by a game warden.  That's 57 animals that never needed to be tagged.  Could have just got them out of the woods, butchered at home and been hunting poaching the next weekend.

It wouldn't be that hard and like others have said if you get caught it's a slap on the wrist.

The rules keep the honest people honest.

Poaching is a huge issue with everything from clams and shrimp to moose.

[Gringo31]

Throw trespass in there as well......

[bigtex]

Poaching is a huge issue with everything from clams and shrimp to moose.

And that's the truth in every state. Only Florida has 24/7/365 statewide game warden coverage, and as a result they are the state with the most game wardens. However, even with that many officers poaching is still a big problem in Florida.

About 10 years ago a staffing study was conducted by the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) that found just to provide adequate coverage WDFW needed to double the amount of officers it has. Notice I said adequate and not 24/7/365 coverage. Since that time the number of officers has risen slightly (less than 10). There are several counties in WA that do not have a WDFW Officer residing in them, and haven't for some time. This requires officers in neighboring counties to patrol them as well.

[PolarBear]

In my local area elk are poached at least 5 X legal kills.

[Rainier10]

Throw trespass in there as well......

I told Scott to go for it if he was on cat tracks next week.    Leave those dogs for us and our new years shoot.   

[Griiz]

Those are insane numbers!  There can't be that many dishonest people in this world.  But I have been wrong before.

One dishonest person or group can harvest a lot of animals.

[Mtnwalker]

I am guessing that I have been involved in at least 40 deer harvested and 20 elk harvested and only had 3 checked by a game warden.  That's 57 animals that never needed to be tagged.  Could have just got them out of the woods, butchered at home and been hunting poaching the next weekend.

It wouldn't be that hard and like others have said if you get caught it's a slap on the wrist.

The rules keep the honest people honest.

Poaching is a huge issue with everything from clams and shrimp to moose.

I’d almost guess that more poachers are caught through word of mouth than by LEO in the field at the time of the incident. Seems like the blatant poachers always get off easy and the guys making honest mistakes get hammered

[Rainier10]

Those are insane numbers!  There can't be that many dishonest people in this world.  But I have been wrong before.

One dishonest person or group can harvest a lot of animals.

[elkboy]

We also need to out pressure on the Legislature to earmark funding for wildlife enforcement. And I do mean earmark funding, so that DFW has no choice but to allocate those funds to wildlife officers, vehicles, etc.

Already done in WA

Thanks for weighing in, Bigtex.  Is it having an effect?  Is there room for additional advocacy?  If you can point me to some more information, I'd appreciate it. 

[bigmacc]

I remember back in the 70,s my dad and I going out every day to see a huge buck just laying in the sun on a south facing slope in the Methow, it was post rut(first couple weeks of Dec.) and you could set your watch by where he was going to be at different times of the day. Where he was hanging out(north part of the valley) he had everything he needed within about a 200yd radius of where he was bedded. He was by himself, around a 30-35inch spread and a roman nose like I have not seen since, just a beautiful, big, old specimen of a buck that would never be seen by humans except this time of year. I remember it was about 10 below and there was about 15-20inches of snow on the hillside he decided to ride out the winter on, we seen him for almost 2 weeks straight in the same area at all different times of the day until one afternoon we put the glasses on his hillside and didn't see him, what we did see was a lot of blood red snow and a headless body in the area he was bedded. We went and talked with the Game guys we knew over there and they investigated it and knew of this huge buck. Turns out it(and many other big bucks) up and down the valley were getting poached at night, and apparently out of helicopters. They could never find human footprints anywhere around the kills and the heads were always removed. If I remember right it was a big poaching ring and they were mounting the heads and selling them to rich folks all around the country. I can't remember how many were killed but I want to say it was in the dozens . Thats back in the days that big bucks like that were all over that valley, heck I remember before the towns(Winthrop)transformation in the late 60,s a rancher we knew over there at the time took us down to town during a real tough cold snap(it was about 20-25 below for 2 weeks or so) and we walked out behind one of the businesses and about 10 deer(1 being a HUGE buck) were all huddled around a compressor that was throwing off a little heat, the heat not only kept them around but the owners were feeding them everyday too which kept them anchored . Probably the reason they never got poached was they were being watched and they were hanging out in town. Poaching is inexcusable in my opinion, but, when done out of greed or money with the meat left to waste, well thats another whole lever of disrespect to the animal and should be dealt with accordingly....

[fishngamereaper]

https://komonews.com/news/local/hunter-loses-record-setting-trophy-buck-over-bogus-claim

Sad. The punishments never fit the crime.

[DOUBLELUNG]

I have heard estimates of 2 poached for every 1 taken legally in Washington in some areas.  I don't have a study to back that up, just rumblings I have heard.

Poaching is a huge problem in Washington.

One Washington state elk study, I want to say 20 years ago, showed a 50% illegal kill rate, with most occurring from 3 weeks prior to modern to 3 weeks post.  25% of radio-tagged hen turkeys in Chelan and Kittitas counties were poached during the 2 years the radio transmitters were active.  It is very significant.

I did a synthesis paper in college 30+ years ago looking at the published poaching studies at that time from around the US.  Poaching DETECTION rates ranged from 1-10%, and illegal deer harvest rates ranged from 50%-200% of the legal harvest.  Poaching rates on hen pheasants were 30% of total rooster harvest in a multi-state study in the Midwest. 

One of my LE instructors had started as a Wisconsin Game Warden in the 1950s after his Korean War service; while not a published study it showed the effect of LE in the field.  He was assigned a district that had never had a game warden, his first year he made over 200 night hunting/spotlighting cases.  The second year, less than 50; and the third and subsequent years less than 20/year.  He was assigned 100% to deer night hunting, any other enforcement he did was incidental. 

If you accept that there is a harvestable surplus of game every year, the legal hunter's portion is that surplus less poaching losses.  Poachers steal opportunity from law abiding hunters, this comes in the form of less desirable season timing (pre-migration, pre and post rut, etc); reduced harvest (antler point restrictions, male vs any animal, etc); reduced bag limits; poorer draw odds etc.  It is not just the reduction in legal harvest, poaching takes away time in the field and opportunity to hunt.

TURN THEM IN.  They are stealing quality opportunities from you, your kids and all law abiding hunters.

[Hilltop123]

I have heard estimates of 2 poached for every 1 taken legally in Washington in some areas.  I don't have a study to back that up, just rumblings I have heard.

Poaching is a huge problem in Washington.

One Washington state elk study, I want to say 20 years ago, showed a 50% illegal kill rate, with most occurring from 3 weeks prior to modern to 3 weeks post.  25% of radio-tagged hen turkeys in Chelan and Kittitas counties were poached during the 2 years the radio transmitters were active.  It is very significant.

I did a synthesis paper in college 30+ years ago looking at the published poaching studies at that time from around the US.  Poaching DETECTION rates ranged from 1-10%, and illegal deer harvest rates ranged from 50%-200% of the legal harvest.  Poaching rates on hen pheasants were 30% of total rooster harvest in a multi-state study in the Midwest. 

One of my LE instructors had started as a Wisconsin Game Warden in the 1950s after his Korean War service; while not a published study it showed the effect of LE in the field.  He was assigned a district that had never had a game warden, his first year he made over 200 night hunting/spotlighting cases.  The second year, less than 50; and the third and subsequent years less than 20/year.  He was assigned 100% to deer night hunting, any other enforcement he did was incidental. 

If you accept that there is a harvestable surplus of game every year, the legal hunter's portion is that surplus less poaching losses.  Poachers steal opportunity from law abiding hunters, this comes in the form of less desirable season timing (pre-migration, pre and post rut, etc); reduced harvest (antler point restrictions, male vs any animal, etc); reduced bag limits; poorer draw odds etc.  It is not just the reduction in legal harvest, poaching takes away time in the field and opportunity to hunt.

TURN THEM IN.  They are stealing quality opportunities from you, your kids and all law abiding hunters.

Turn them in? I have grown tired of the lax almost non caring, responses I get when I used to call in suspicious activity. He'll on any given night you can watch rigs drive around up here, at all hours of the night. The one time WDFW did do a night operation up here, they pulled out at 10pm, they said it was getting late. Hell, the boys doing the poaching have just left the quickly Mart getting their box of beer at 10 pm, on their way to get up here. JMTCW

[jstone]

Gate the roads from November 30th to the spring. No trucks no snowmobile.

[Hilltop123]

Gate the roads from November 30th to the spring. No trucks no snowmobile.

Agreed

[cb1989]

Turn them in? I have grown tired of the lax almost non caring, responses I get when I used to call in suspicious activity.

x2. Called about some dudes I saw in Umtanum couple weeks back riding off road with their side by sides and carrying crossbows, got a "thanks" I was out there for another two days never saw a state truck roll through even looking. Other than the fact that it helps me feel better knowing I called, I don't expect anything to come of it.

[DeArBuCK4me]

When you talk to redneck hunters, and unethical ones as well,  you realized how much meat goes to freezers from poaching. They also resent the fish and game department because according to them this people are only interested in regulating everything to do with hunting and fishing. So lots of them decided to go underground and we the fee paying hunters,  pay the price cause there's less for us to be had. How about actually having a department who like the police have many officers-- and not just a few who drink coffee and eat doughnuts while the poachers chip away our animals--there's an idea.   

[singleshot12]

When you talk to redneck hunters, and unethical ones as well,  you realized how much meat goes to freezers from poaching. They also resent the fish and game department because according to them this people are only interested in regulating everything to do with hunting and fishing. So lots of them decided to go underground and we the fee paying hunters,  pay the price cause there's less for us to be had. How about actually having a department who like the police have many officers-- and not just a few who drink coffee and eat doughnuts while the poachers chip away our animals--there's an idea.   

So what you are saying is that the game dept. is responsible for the poaching? or creating more poachers? If so you may have a point.

[Mr Mykiss]

I have heard estimates of 2 poached for every 1 taken legally in Washington

Wait are you saying that Washington owes me like 24 deers!! Or is that not how it works??

[Rainier10]

I have heard estimates of 2 poached for every 1 taken legally in Washington

Wait are you saying that Washington owes me like 24 deers!! Or is that not how it works??

No that's not how it works.  Every time you shoot a deer someone else gets to shoot two for free.  They shoot two every time I shoot a deer also.  They have to double up because @Karl Blanchard hunts almost exclusively out of state now and those don't count towards the 2 for 1 quota here in Washington. 

[NOCK NOCK]

But, But...…...I thought the wolves were to blame for the suffering deer herds.


  seems to be all the rage on here. 

and yes I do realize that wolves have an impact, and no, I am not a wolf hugger. 

[JeffRaines]

The laws do need to change, and the punishment needs to be more severe.

Start by confiscating everything used to poach the animal, even the vehicle. Every time. Got 4 wheelers with you? Take those too. Theres some funding for your officers.

Now, make it a felony. Its senseless to ban these people from hunting, just like gun free zones - it doesn't do anything... but you can take their right to legally own firearms away.

[Lumpy Taters]

I hunt rifle season west side only. I can tell you all season long I saw more people headed into the woods at dark than I saw all day long while I was out there.  Had some friends call about people spot lighting and there was no follow up.  No investigation, no nothing. Gave plate numbers and everything.  Poaching is way to common everywhere and it surprises me how willing some are to do it.   

[actionshooter]

 I, with out a doubt believe that more deer come out of Capitol Forest under salal brush than during deer season and have yet to hear of anyone getting caught. Its one of those crimes that is easy to get away with and then the light punishment is worth the risk to those who do it.

[Thehowler]

I, with out a doubt believe that more deer come out of Capitol Forest under salal brush than during deer season and have yet to hear of anyone getting caught. Its one of those crimes that is easy to get away with and then the light punishment is worth the risk to those who do it.

Couple months worth of taco meat.

[PolarBear]

I, with out a doubt believe that more deer come out of Capitol Forest under salal brush than during deer season and have yet to hear of anyone getting caught. Its one of those crimes that is easy to get away with and then the light punishment is worth the risk to those who do it.

 
And Vail as well!!  I've seen it numerous times in Vail.  Bloody bumpers with salal piled to the roof.