the Methow is even worse off than I thought

[Dan-o]

I am hearing reports of cougar/livestock issues around Mansfield, seems likely that movement has occured from the north and east.  Any word from WDFW?

That would surprise me.

I've never seen a cougar track around Mannsfield, but I'm sure they're around.

[bigmacc]

If that's the case I guess I'm confused as to why we are where we are today with the limited seasons, a single cat bag limit, quotas etc.

At some point they reversed course and placed the additional protections on them. Based on what?  Obviously not populations, that's readily apparent with the sightings that have skyrocketed. 

I hope wholeheartedly that WDFW has our best interests in mind, but nothing they do with respect to predators illustrates that.

100% agree, when hounds and baiting were taken out of the playbook a much more aggressive approach should have been taken to control bear and cougar numbers, at least year round seasons on cats with no quotas and longer and more aggressive seasons on bear. Like some have said, the predators seem like they are being managed and coddled more than our deer and elk , their populations are increasing while our deer, elk and moose are decreasing.

[bigmacc]

Just going to inject a little logic here...WDFW are not anti-hunters and declines are not all their fault.  Statewide initiatives and politics, human population growth, and habitat degradation/loss are a number of things outside their control that are major contributors to mule deer and other game species declines in this state.

Carry on.

 

WDFW is being run to protect predators! That is their main goal!

In eastern states with high human populations and tremendous development, where there are no cougar and no wolves, you can shoot multiple deer per season, one deer a day in one state! The states where elk are being reintroduced they are flourishing!

Apples and oranges bearpaw...not even close comparisons.  Nice try though. 

WDFWs main goal seems to be keeping their bloated bureaucracy afloat.  However, its unreasonable to talk about methow mule deer declines without acknowledging several other major factors outside their control.

There are more mule deer living in the towns in the Methow than anywhere. Everyone who has actually been there know that! The problem is predators!

You are right on the chin bearpaw , what a lot of people don't realize is at one time the Methow herd was THE largest migrating Mule Deer herd in the country, the folks left in charge of "managing" this herd have done a disservice to not only us as hunters, but first and foremost they have done a disservice to this once proud and thriving herd. Predators are job 1 now days, its easy to see who is getting the attention, some are on the rise while the others are tanking, it doesn't take a college degree to see whats happening.....

[bigmacc]

Just talked with a friend who lives in the Davis Lake area, smack dab in the middle of some great winter range. He has lived-in the valley for over 50 years and knows it and its history well. Up until about 12-15 years ago he would see around 1500-2000 deer in the Davis area between Thanksgiving and Valentines day, according to his journals. Over the last 15 years the numbers have slowly been trending down each year. This year he has seen around 200 total in the area since Thanksgiving, from 1500 down to 200, thats quite a drop! He says the same thing a lot of us are saying, "the NUMBER ONE problem with this herd is when the gloves were put on concerning predators". He also said "the NUMBER TWO problem is we have a bunch of kids with laptops and politicians that are calling all the shots and they will tell you to your face, they know what they're doing". Well, IF their job is to grow and expand a number of different predators and help devastate a once thriving Mule deer herd then you know what, maybe they DO KNOW what they're doing.

[bearpaw]

Question from a cougar novice.
Is it possible that the up tick in cougar sightings where there normally weren't alot be caused by wolves pushing them into these areas ?

Anybody?

I've been hunting cougar every winter since 1976. When we first started cougar hunting we had to go back in the mountains to find cats, it took on average a week to find a cat. In the mid 80's WA began a draw system and the cougar population began climbing, cougar became so numerous that we would average finding 5 cougar tracks per day hunted, I began offering guaranteed 3-day cougar hunts and we could cherry pick for the biggest cat. It was during the 90's that we really began finding more and more cougar closer to towns. I continued offering hunts in WA until voters outlawed hound hunting in 1996.

In the last 20 years since hound hunting was outlawed I've also noticed even more cougar and a considerable decline in mule deer numbers in the mountains, a favored food of cougar. With fewer mule deer there are more and more cats eating whitetail deer and other food sources. So I think there are three factors at work, first being the cougar population is very high and the mountains are saturated with cats and other predators, secondly food sources in the mountains have dwindled, there are more possible food sources closer to human developments where whitetails, pets, and other possible food sources are more abundant, and third cougar no longer have as much fear of dogs or humans because dogs with humans are no longer allowed to hunt cougar in WA, as a result I think dogs are more frequently viewed as a food source by neighborhood dwelling cougar and even though cougar historically avoided humans, the frequency of cougar attacking humans is increasing.

There's not much doubt that wolf packs displace cougar either, even though one cougar might kill one wolf, it's been documented that wolves kill and eat cougar. I think the additional competition in the mountains has caused cougar and wolves to seek more abundant food sources and frequent human inhabited areas more often.

[huntnfmly]

Question from a cougar novice.
Is it possible that the up tick in cougar sightings where there normally weren't alot be caused by wolves pushing them into these areas ?

Anybody?

I've been hunting cougar every winter since 1976. When we first started cougar hunting we had to go back in the mountains to find cats, it took on average a week to find a cat. In the mid 80's WA began a draw system and the cougar population began climbing, cougar became so numerous that we would average finding 5 cougar tracks per day hunted, I began offering guaranteed 3-day cougar hunts and we could cherry pick for the biggest cat. It was during the 90's that we really began finding more and more cougar closer to towns. I continued offering hunts in WA until voters outlawed hound hunting in 1996.

In the last 20 years since hound hunting was outlawed I've also noticed even more cougar and a considerable decline in mule deer numbers in the mountains, a favored food of cougar. With fewer mule deer there are more and more cats eating whitetail deer and other food sources. So I think there are three factors at work, first being the cougar population is very high and the mountains are saturated with cats and other predators, secondly food sources in the mountains have dwindled, there are more possible food sources closer to human developments where whitetails, pets, and other possible food sources are more abundant, and third cougar no longer have as much fear of dogs or humans because dogs with humans are no longer allowed to hunt cougar in WA, as a result I think dogs are more frequently viewed as a food source by neighborhood dwelling cougar and even though cougar historically avoided humans, the frequency of cougar attacking humans is increasing.

There's not much doubt that wolf packs displace cougar either, even though one cougar might kill one wolf, it's been documented that wolves kill and eat cougar. I think the additional competition in the mountains has caused cougar and wolves to seek more abundant food sources and frequent human inhabited areas more often.

Thank you I appreciate the insight

[bigmacc]

Good points bearpaw. I am on your side.

[timberfaller]

 "I'm not sure the governor will allow much predator hunting." quote by bearpaw

He is a Demoncrat!  HE supported the Brady bill when his office phones were ringing 3 to 1 against it EVERY time it was voted on.  WE kicked him and the Speaker out(Foley) as our Reps. at the next possible election!!

The people who gave us Inslee as governor are also going to determining our future of hunting and firearm ownership, WHO have you been voting for? Are you a Party loyalist and do you suffer TDS??

Having lived most of my adult life in the Methow, I know where the real problems lays!  I remember the Hunter Ed IST held in Republic after the hound/bait bill was passed and lost in court,  WE were told then that the WDFW would become "pro-active" instead of "re-active" Well folks it doesn't look like they did as they said they would do!!   Last Aprils IST was living proof of it!  Rant over!

[huntnphool]

WE were told then that the WDFW would become "pro-active" instead of "re-active" Well folks it doesn't look like they did as they said they would do!!

 What?? Say it ain't so!

[bigmacc]

WE were told then that the WDFW would become "pro-active" instead of "re-active" Well folks it doesn't look like they did as they said they would do!!

 What?? Say it ain't so!

And they wonder why mistrust in them is growing and confidence in them is falling, at least by most of the hunting public. On the other hand maybe they don't wonder and they probably don't care.

[davew]

Unfortunately, WDFW responds to its political constituency.  The 4% of Washingtonians that hunt and want fewer predators are dwarfed by the number of Seattle metro area residents that love the idea of having more wolves, mountain lions and bears, even though they will probably never visit the areas those animals live.  In the long run, hunters in this state are f*%#ed. 

[MADMAX]

I sent an email to wdfw after receiving the attached and stressed they should be managing the Methow mule deer herd instead of butterflys
Id recommend more do the same

[bigmacc]

I sent an email to wdfw after receiving the attached and stressed they should be managing the Methow mule deer herd instead of butterflys
Id recommend more do the same

In route  ........unbelievable, well, not really unfortunately.

[MADMAX]

Good man
Ridiculous
Losing deer elk and moose in this state
But WDFW are worried about a butterfly and a puffin
Go figure ❄️❄️❄️S

[Skyvalhunter]

I sent an e-mail to WDFW requesting info on the December 2018 mule deer survey conducted in the Methow and here was the reply I received.

Due to budget limitations, the duration of the survey was not long enough to obtain population estimates. A full write-up of the survey results will be available in the 2019 Deer Status and Trends Report which will be published in February of 2020.