the Methow is even worse off than I thought

[Skyvalhunter]

Well I spent the weekend over there cutting out trails and roads below Carlton up to 5000 feet. Didn't see a lot of sign, did see 8 deer. I should say a glimpse because as soon as one saw me they bolted. Pretty skitterish which doesn't surprise me with the high predator population.

[h2ofowlr]

They tagged 3 cougar just up Twisp River road this winter.  The old timer behind Hanks had two cougars in his orchard this winter as well.  Feeding on the deer that hang out in the orchard.  Bill just up the Twisp River Rd had his dog killed by a cougar.
Two of the cougar tagged were just above the Frost Rd.  They were feeding on the deer that hang out in peoples property along the road.
This past Oct. we were push the bottoms for whitetail and kicked out a nice cat.  It went right in front of the my buddy and he was able to shoot it at 30 yards.  Definitely seeing a lot of cats down lower around town.

[Skyvalhunter]

Probably the same 3 cats my friend had in his yard 1/2 mile from Twisp on the Carlton/Twisp road. He said they were juveniles.

[bigmacc]

This valley is overrun with cats, man I get tired of the WDFW propaganda about these things, they(WDFW) really do think we are stupid enough to believe it. Cougars are killing LOTS and LOTS of deer in this valley, its plain as day, like I said it doesn't take a college degree in anybody's back pocket to figure this out, cull these cats by at least half using the REAL population numbers in this valley and you will see the deer herd start to bounce back almost instantly, even with huge population of bears and growing wolf numbers just zeroing in on cougars in this valley will make a huge difference for this herd, then they can come up with a bear plan. I myself am not asking to eradicate bear and cougar in this valley, heck like I have said it used to be neat to see one here and there over the years, now we are seeing them more and more and quite frankly looking over our shoulders constantly, letting my grandkids take hikes by themselves like my kids did and I did when I was a a 12 year old is out of the question in a lot of parts of this valley,  finding kills sites everywhere with half eaten/half rotting carcases will make you think twice before letting your young ones venture off. I as a lifelong contributor to the Game Department AND the WDFW just want them to be HONEST about this predator issue in the valley and do something to address it before THE DEER are all but ERADICATED from this valley, they need to stop spinning things to coddle these predators and put their focus on this deer herd again. If something isn't done and they(WDFW) continues to not be 100% honest about not only the predator situation as a whole but this cougar problem 1st, there are going to be tragedies, the writing is on the wall. More and more people are using this valley for recreation not to mention more people moving in, they need to get this under control.

[OutHouse]

 

But another problem has to do with the people building homes up there. Most who have built near where I go are put off by hunters, shooting etc.. Most are rich west side liberals who want to dictate what happens and they are usually pro predator. Up near mazama a lot of the newcomers are there for cross country skiing, biking etc.. and they do not like the hunting image. I scared the bejeezus out of some hikers during archery as they walked up on me in full face paint and didn't know until I raised a palm. "People hunt around here??" they asked with distressed looks on their faces. These people are pro predator plain and simple.

You can imagine the looks I have got at the mazama store during hunting season when all I want is a gallon of their ridiculously over priced milk. I think a lot of the property owners (not year around owners) would support anything that means less hunters. And by the way I have nothing against libs generally, I am very middle of the road politically but I despise they way these people show up and clear the five acres they bought and then want to speak up about how things should work in the valley. Its disgusting. My fam has property up there dating back to the early 90's and I never thought to influence with my agenda.

[bigmacc]

But another problem has to do with the people building homes up there. Most who have built near where I go are put off by hunters, shooting etc.. Most are rich west side liberals who want to dictate what happens and they are usually pro predator. Up near mazama a lot of the newcomers are there for cross country skiing, biking etc.. and they do not like the hunting image. I scared the bejeezus out of some hikers during archery as they walked up on me in full face paint and didn't know until I raised a palm. "People hunt around here??" they asked with distressed looks on their faces. These people are pro predator plain and simple.

You can imagine the looks I have got at the mazama store during hunting season when all I want is a gallon of their ridiculously over priced milk. I think a lot of the property owners (not year around owners) would support anything that means less hunters. And by the way I have nothing against libs generally, I am very middle of the road politically but I despise they way these people show up and clear the five acres they bought and then want to speak up about how things should work in the valley. Its disgusting. My fam has property up there dating back to the early 90's and I never thought to influence with my agenda.

I agree, I was telling some folks on here about all the out of state plates I have been seeing and a lot of them are out and about with real-estate agents, this past year I have never seen so many, California mostly with a surprising number of people from back east(New York, New Hampshire, Vermont and Pennsylvania to name a few), and man have I been seeing lots of BERNIE 2020 stickers! This valley is and has been morphing into more of a "liberal sanctuary" so to speak as most of the old guard of the valley is moving out or passing on. Tie dye shirts, braided hair and sandals are becoming the norm more and more as the old cowboy/ranching culture is dwindling. Before the North Cascade pass opened it was hunters and fishermen that pumped a lot of money into the economy of this valley, now our money is just a drop in the bucket a few weeks out of the year. People flock in there now for softball tourneys, hot air baloon festivals, cross country skiing, biking, music festivals etc. etc. and many of the folks that attend these are not folks that are into hunting but they spend lots of money, fall in love with the area, some even move there and so on and so on. Thats just the way it is now, I personally know a few people who have gotten so irate with what is happening that they have moved out of the valley, some had lived there their whole lives. Hunting in the Methow is not what it used to be even just 20 or so years ago and like I have always said it is for many different reasons, I am smart enough to know we can't pin the decline on just one factor, there are many, and in a strange way they all tie in with each other in some way, shape or form. I still stick by my opinion that the number one cause of this herds decline is the predator issue, but like you said OutHouse, this valley is becoming more and more anti-hunting and like I am saying, in a strange way it all ties in together and when its said and done, it doesn't look good for the future of hunting in the Methow Valley, and for a lot of us, that is very unfortunate and for a lot of others its exactly what they want...

[bigmacc]

Just talked with a friend in the Davis Lk. area, he seen a big cougar with what looked to have been a kitten or juvenile while taking a drive yesterday ....4th and 5th cats he has seen since October, all were in different areas......They claim there are around 2,500 cougars in this state, heck, half of them are in the Methow for crying out loud! Just ridiculous

[Alchase]

Just talked with a friend in the Davis Lk. area, he seen a big cougar with what looked to have been a kitten or juvenile while taking a drive yesterday ....4th and 5th cats he has seen since October, all were in different areas......They claim there are around 2,500 cougars in this state, heck, half of them are in the Methow for crying out loud! Just ridiculous

In 2010, we were camping in Bear Creek East for the General Season. I woke up to find a hefty two-point had been killed and partially eaten by a cougar, about 50 feet from my tent just past the gate, during the night.
I am usually a pretty light sleeper, I had even got up to use the Sani-can in the middle of the night and I did not hear a thing?

[ghosthunter]

But another problem has to do with the people building homes up there. Most who have built near where I go are put off by hunters, shooting etc.. Most are rich west side liberals who want to dictate what happens and they are usually pro predator. Up near mazama a lot of the newcomers are there for cross country skiing, biking etc.. and they do not like the hunting image. I scared the bejeezus out of some hikers during archery as they walked up on me in full face paint and didn't know until I raised a palm. "People hunt around here??" they asked with distressed looks on their faces. These people are pro predator plain and simple.

You can imagine the looks I have got at the mazama store during hunting season when all I want is a gallon of their ridiculously over priced milk. I think a lot of the property owners (not year around owners) would support anything that means less hunters. And by the way I have nothing against libs generally, I am very middle of the road politically but I despise they way these people show up and clear the five acres they bought and then want to speak up about how things should work in the valley. Its disgusting. My fam has property up there dating back to the early 90's and I never thought to influence with my agenda.

I agree, I was telling some folks on here about all the out of state plates I have been seeing and a lot of them are out and about with real-estate agents, this past year I have never seen so many, California mostly with a surprising number of people from back east(New York, New Hampshire, Vermont and Pennsylvania to name a few), and man have I been seeing lots of BERNIE 2020 stickers! This valley is and has been morphing into more of a "liberal sanctuary" so to speak as most of the old guard of the valley is moving out or passing on. Tie dye shirts, braided hair and sandals are becoming the norm more and more as the old cowboy/ranching culture is dwindling. Before the North Cascade pass opened it was hunters and fishermen that pumped a lot of money into the economy of this valley, now our money is just a drop in the bucket a few weeks out of the year. People flock in there now for softball tourneys, hot air baloon festivals, cross country skiing, biking, music festivals etc. etc. and many of the folks that attend these are not folks that are into hunting but they spend lots of money, fall in love with the area, some even move there and so on and so on. Thats just the way it is now, I personally know a few people who have gotten so irate with what is happening that they have moved out of the valley, some had lived there their whole lives. Hunting in the Methow is not what it used to be even just 20 or so years ago and like I have always said it is for many different reasons, I am smart enough to know we can't pin the decline on just one factor, there are many, and in a strange way they all tie in with each other in some way, shape or form. I still stick by my opinion that the number one cause of this herds decline is the predator issue, but like you said OutHouse, this valley is becoming more and more anti-hunting and like I am saying, in a strange way it all ties in together and when its said and done, it doesn't look good for the future of hunting in the Methow Valley, and for a lot of us, that is very unfortunate and for a lot of others its exactly what they want...

The FS is a partner in all the decline too. Mountain Biking will take over the whole Thompson Ridge area in time. More and more bike trails being built all around that area. Was over there last weekend and there was a trail crew up one of the roads that are gated during hunting season building more bike trails. 10 more years they will be into the Bridge Creek drainage.
I picked up the two local papers while over there. One had a recreational insert  out lining all the activities in the valley. And talking about making the largest Mountain bike trail complex's in the state.
No where did it mention hunting.

[bigmacc]

But another problem has to do with the people building homes up there. Most who have built near where I go are put off by hunters, shooting etc.. Most are rich west side liberals who want to dictate what happens and they are usually pro predator. Up near mazama a lot of the newcomers are there for cross country skiing, biking etc.. and they do not like the hunting image. I scared the bejeezus out of some hikers during archery as they walked up on me in full face paint and didn't know until I raised a palm. "People hunt around here??" they asked with distressed looks on their faces. These people are pro predator plain and simple.

You can imagine the looks I have got at the mazama store during hunting season when all I want is a gallon of their ridiculously over priced milk. I think a lot of the property owners (not year around owners) would support anything that means less hunters. And by the way I have nothing against libs generally, I am very middle of the road politically but I despise they way these people show up and clear the five acres they bought and then want to speak up about how things should work in the valley. Its disgusting. My fam has property up there dating back to the early 90's and I never thought to influence with my agenda.

I agree, I was telling some folks on here about all the out of state plates I have been seeing and a lot of them are out and about with real-estate agents, this past year I have never seen so many, California mostly with a surprising number of people from back east(New York, New Hampshire, Vermont and Pennsylvania to name a few), and man have I been seeing lots of BERNIE 2020 stickers! This valley is and has been morphing into more of a "liberal sanctuary" so to speak as most of the old guard of the valley is moving out or passing on. Tie dye shirts, braided hair and sandals are becoming the norm more and more as the old cowboy/ranching culture is dwindling. Before the North Cascade pass opened it was hunters and fishermen that pumped a lot of money into the economy of this valley, now our money is just a drop in the bucket a few weeks out of the year. People flock in there now for softball tourneys, hot air baloon festivals, cross country skiing, biking, music festivals etc. etc. and many of the folks that attend these are not folks that are into hunting but they spend lots of money, fall in love with the area, some even move there and so on and so on. Thats just the way it is now, I personally know a few people who have gotten so irate with what is happening that they have moved out of the valley, some had lived there their whole lives. Hunting in the Methow is not what it used to be even just 20 or so years ago and like I have always said it is for many different reasons, I am smart enough to know we can't pin the decline on just one factor, there are many, and in a strange way they all tie in with each other in some way, shape or form. I still stick by my opinion that the number one cause of this herds decline is the predator issue, but like you said OutHouse, this valley is becoming more and more anti-hunting and like I am saying, in a strange way it all ties in together and when its said and done, it doesn't look good for the future of hunting in the Methow Valley, and for a lot of us, that is very unfortunate and for a lot of others its exactly what they want...

The FS is a partner in all the decline too. Mountain Biking will take over the whole Thompson Ridge area in time. More and more bike trails being built all around that area. Was over there last weekend and there was a trail crew up one of the roads that are gated during hunting season building more bike trails. 10 more years they will be into the Bridge Creek drainage.
I picked up the two local papers while over there. One had a recreational insert  out lining all the activities in the valley. And talking about making the largest Mountain bike trail complex's in the state.
No where did it mention hunting.

"Everything all ties in together when its all said and done". ghosthunter, I agree.

[bigmacc]

Just talked with a friend in the Davis Lk. area, he seen a big cougar with what looked to have been a kitten or juvenile while taking a drive yesterday ....4th and 5th cats he has seen since October, all were in different areas......They claim there are around 2,500 cougars in this state, heck, half of them are in the Methow for crying out loud! Just ridiculous

In 2010, we were camping in Bear Creek East for the General Season. I woke up to find a hefty two-point had been killed and partially eaten by a cougar, about 50 feet from my tent just past the gate, during the night.
I am usually a pretty light sleeper, I had even got up to use the Sani-can in the middle of the night and I did not hear a thing?

Alchase, I have a friend who seen one of the biggest cats he has ever seen in the Bear Creek area in 2012, if I remember right a fella killed it that fall, once again, if I remember right it was over 120lbs . That area is getting overrun with cats as well as most everything north of the lake. Only a few wolves being seen up north, I don't know if cats run the wolves out or vis-versa, I can't even believe these conversations are happening, what a shame.

[Skyvalhunter]

I will say one thing in Defense of WDFW on the cat issue. They tried to get the quota for the cats increased but Inslee vetoed it down then proceeded to send a letter to the Sierra Club to brag about what he did. He needs to stick to whatever it is he does and let those who know do their job.

[bigmacc]

I will say one thing in Defense of WDFW on the cat issue. They tried to get the quota for the cats increased but Inslee vetoed it down then proceeded to send a letter to the Sierra Club to brag about what he did. He needs to stick to whatever it is he does and let those who know do their job.

Oh I agree Skyvalhunter , Like I have said there are many issues and reasons that have contributed to the downfall of this herd and the  politics of this state are certainly one of the big ones.

Just to add, as far as the Methow goes, with the amount of cats being seen in this valley the quota could be tripled and I doubt it would help, I know some folks who say what this deer herd needs is for cats to be hunted year round with no quota for a few years at least, if we can't use hounds, open it up. I know it wont happen but its whats needed to help turn this herd around....

[wolfbait]

You could hunt the cougars year around with no quota and that still won't change the outcome in the Methow etc., wolves are going to take care of what the bears, and coyotes don't kill. Even taking out hunting isn't going to stop the decimation of the herds at this point.

Maybe if everyone felt then what they do now and stood up for the ungulates/hunting, WA would have gotten an honest wolf plan and we would be in a different place today. But then you look at Oregon which actually came out with a fairly good wolf plan and we see ODFW have play many of the same dishonest games as WDFW.


The USFWS and fake environmental groups had their ducks all lined up when they introduced wolves, the perfect tool to end hunting and put ranchers out of business, a tool protected with the highest form of fraud and corruption, the wolf introduction.

There's no doubt that the Bear-cougar population is out of control, but looking at other states where cougars and bears are hunted liberally wolves were/are still the main factor in hunting losses etc., cougars and bears didn't drop the Yellowstone elk herd from 20,000 to less then 4000.

The pro-wolf crowd on H-W should be very proud of themselves, their side won.

 

[idaho guy]

You could hunt the cougars year around with no quota and that still won't change the outcome in the Methow etc., wolves are going to take care of what the bears, and coyotes don't kill. Even taking out hunting isn't going to stop the decimation of the herds at this point.

Maybe if everyone felt then what they do now and stood up for the ungulates/hunting, WA would have gotten an honest wolf plan and we would be in a different place today. But then you look at Oregon which actually came out with a fairly good wolf plan and we see ODFW have play many of the same dishonest games as WDFW.


The USFWS and fake environmental groups had their ducks all lined up when they introduced wolves, the perfect tool to end hunting and put ranchers out of business, a tool protected with the highest form of fraud and corruption, the wolf introduction.

There's no doubt that the Bear-cougar population is out of control, but looking at other states where cougars and bears are hunted liberally wolves were/are still the main factor in hunting losses etc., cougars and bears didn't drop the Yellowstone elk herd from 20,000 to less then 4000.

The pro-wolf crowd on H-W should be very proud of themselves, their side won.

spot on-Idaho is going ballistic on ALL predators and the elk herds still have not fully recovered. The downward spiral of herds is/was directly correlated to the presence of wolves. Some areas will never recover their former glory even with the most liberal trapping and hunting seasons in the nation for wolves. Wolves are the x factor when it comes to declining game populations. Once they are established you cant ever go back to the "good old days" of especially elk hunting. Idaho still has good and even in some places great elk hunting but we will never get back what it was. This is with a fish and game that is super aggressive on predator management. We have it all bear baiting, hound hunting,trapping and year around hunting seasons on private land for wolves and we still wont ever fully recover our elk in many areas of the state. Once wolves are established you cant ever put the cat back in the bag. I am sorry to hear about the Methow that is amazing country that from what I have seen is perfect mule deer habitat. I wonder where all the pro wolf people are now? You will just have to be a better hunter they said    All the guys sounding the alarm were just extremists wearing tin foul hats right? what a joke. I still usually get my elk but its not the same Idaho elk hunting that it once was. Good job pro -wolfers you won