WDFW final recommendations for 2009-11

[Kain]

Final Commission action is scheduled for the April 3-4 meeting in Olympia.


http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/seasonsetting/index.htm#recommendations

Glad they changed bear season back to starting in August.

[rosscrazyelk]

I like how they posted the concerns of people and their responses to it. I did notice that my response to them was not there but I am sure they got alot.

[MichaelJ]

SWEET!  They brought back the Swakane later archery, but the season now runs from nov 21-30 and is 3 point minimum... No more shooting of does and they shortened the season a couple days from December 5th if I remember right.  Smart move on their point imho.  (Remeber I know some of you disagree, and we've had that discussion many times on here.  Please don't try to start arguments...)

Michael

[MichaelJ]

They also brought Down the modern firearm special permits in Entiat A from 52 to 30, Swakane A from 38 to 20, and Mission A from 22 to 10.  Another great decision from what I can see...

They've also taken out the Sherman unit from the late special permit hunt.  I don't know anything about that, but figured some here would like it mentioned.

Entiat C (ARCHERY) permits are raised from 17 to 55.  And the Dates are from nov 21-30.

there's some other changes in there as well, but I felt these topics were highlighted on here...

There has been no permit only for the Colockum, no season shutting down, only the True Spike Rule has been implemented and still remains.  We'll see what the season brings....

Michael

[mossback91]

SWEET!  They brought back the Swakane later archery, but the season now runs from nov 21-30 and is 3 point minimum... No more shooting of does and they shortened the season a couple days from December 5th if I remember right.  Smart move on their point imho.  (Remeber I know some of you disagree, and we've had that discussion many times on here.  Please don't try to start arguments...)

Michael

Good cause I was thinking that you were going to kill all the does up there you doe slayer!!!

[WonkyWapiti]

Looks like they finally are letting archers carry a pistol for protection if they have a cwp. 

[7mag.]

Looks like they finally are letting archers carry a pistol for protection if they have a cwp. 

Good, now I'll be legit.

[Skyvalhunter]

It's about time!!

[bearmanric]

some the archer's i met last year carried pistol's in there four wheeler's. lick creek and usk. by my camp's slob hunter's. Rick

[bobcat]

Looks like they finally are letting archers carry a pistol for protection if they have a cwp. 

I don't think you need a concealed weapons permit to carry a handgun while hunting. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Armadillo]

only if its concealed right?

[Slider]

Looks like they finally are letting archers carry a pistol for protection if they have a cwp. 

 

[bowhuntin]

Anyone know the reason why you need to have CWP to carry during archery? What is the reasoning behind that? I am all for being able to carry during any season, but don't see why you have to have a CWP?

[Craig]

Looks like they got rid of the Chiliwist late buck tag. I guess I need a new unit to put in for.

[billythekidrock]

Looks like they got rid of the Chiliwist late buck tag. I guess I need a new unit to put in for.

 

[Alpine Mojo]

The way I read it, you don't need your CPL to carry concealed while your outside recreating.  I let mine expire a couple of years ago for this reason.  No need to shell out another $50 to renew my name in their database.

RCW 9.41.060

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060

"The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 (carry, including concealed) shall not apply to...
 ...Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area"

[Jerbear]

I think the CWP is because some folks have felony records, and they can hunt with bows, but still not allowed by law to have a firearm. 

[bowhuntin]

The way I read it, you don't need your CPL to carry concealed while your outside recreating.  I let mine expire a couple of years ago for this reason.  No need to shell out another $50 to renew my name in their database.

RCW 9.41.060

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.060

"The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 (carry, including concealed) shall not apply to...
 ...Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area"

Reading the RCW makes more sense than what they have in the final recommendations. Leave it to the WDFW to confuse people.

I think the CWP is because some folks have felony records, and they can hunt with bows, but still not allowed by law to have a firearm. 

Jerbear that is also what I was thinking, but them having a gun even if they weren't hunting is breaking the law because of their felony conviction.

[Kain]

They will be taking public comment on this issue after 1pm on the 4th.  Can anyone make it to bring up the contradicting RCW?

[MichaelJ]

The main reason for them requiring a CWP for carrying during archery seasons is their concern for people dispatching wounded game with their handgun.  They don't want every joe somebody up on the mountain with a bow carrying a pistol, they wanted a way to 'try' to ensure that those carrying were going to be ethical about it.  They took input from the public and decided that 'most' of those with a CWP will be ethical in how they use their pistol during archery season.  Makes sense to me.

Michael

[Kain]

So they should just assume that we are all unethical until we prove we are not?  I think it should be the other way around.  I cant believe people are OK with this stuff.  They continue to create more rules and regulations (that they cant enforce) that will only effect ethical people and will have little to no effect on unethical or criminal people. 

[Machias]

That makes NO sense and how can that be Constitutional??  Sounds to me like they are invoking a rule only to generate revenue for the state.  If I don't carry my handgun concealed I should not need a concealed carry permit.  There is already a exception to the concealed carry law if you are recreating in the outdoors.  This RCW is in conflict with another RCW.

RCW 9.41.060
Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms. 

The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

     (1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;

     (2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

     (3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

     (4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

     (5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

     (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

     (7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

     ( 8 ) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

     (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

     (10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.


[2005 c 453 § 3; 1998 c 253 § 2; 1996 c 295 § 5; 1995 c 392 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 406; 1961 c 124 § 5; 1935 c 172 § 6; RRS § 2516-6.]


Notes:
     Severability -- 2005 c 453: See note following RCW 9.41.040.

     Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.


     Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.

[nw_bowhunter]

Having the CWP is a good thing but has nothing to do with ethics, or if someone will use the gun to dispatch the wounded animal. I do not agree with that one bit.

[Machias]

The main reason for them requiring a CWP for carrying during archery seasons is their concern for people dispatching wounded game with their handgun.  They don't want every joe somebody up on the mountain with a bow carrying a pistol, they wanted a way to 'try' to ensure that those carrying were going to be ethical about it.  They took input from the public and decided that 'most' of those with a CWP will be ethical in how they use their pistol during archery season.  Makes sense to me.

Michael

I'm not attacking you, but it makes no sense to me.  How will a CWP stop someone who would use a weapon to dispatch an animal?  It won't.  Obtaining a CWP does not make a person more ethical then someone without a CWP.

[MichaelJ]

The main reason for them requiring a CWP for carrying during archery seasons is their concern for people dispatching wounded game with their handgun.  They don't want every joe somebody up on the mountain with a bow carrying a pistol, they wanted a way to 'try' to ensure that those carrying were going to be ethical about it.  They took input from the public and decided that 'most' of those with a CWP will be ethical in how they use their pistol during archery season.  Makes sense to me.

Michael

I'm not attacking you, but it makes no sense to me.  How will a CWP stop someone who would use a weapon to dispatch an animal?  It won't.  Obtaining a CWP does not make a person more ethical then someone without a CWP.

Understood... However maybe Aaron can chime in, he was at the meeting as well...
Here is how I look at it...
'Most' poachers and unethical people out there have very little regard for rules/regulations, I would be very surprised if most poachers out there had pistols that they carried with them without a CWP because they just don't care about the law.  it seems to me that anybody who is willing to go through the process of getting a CWP is less likely to abuse their rights than someone who hasn't.

I know that the commissioner made a statement during the Eburg meeting much like "Now I know that I am never without my 44 mag while archery hunting in Montana.  There's too many things out there that I'm scared of..." (it was a pretty funny remark, but you could tell he was for the carrying of pistols during archery seasons).  They just want a way to be able to regulate it, and try to keep people from using them in ways other than intended...

Michael

[Kain]

I understand where they are coming from but there is already a rule that says you cannot use a weapon different than your tag to dispatch wounded game.  Including the CWP requirement will do nothing to stop the people that would do this anyways. 

[Machias]

How do you think they will solve the conflict between the two RCWs?  I just think they are setting themselves up for litigation.   

[bobcat]

A person is well within their rights to carry a concealed handgun while hunting, permit or not. So just go ahead and do it. The new law makes absolutely no sense. A person hunting with a rifle during rifle season is allowed to carry a concealed weapon. The new law is meant to allow an archery hunter to do the same. You should not need a permit in order to do something that is a right granted to all of us by the 2nd amendment.

[bowhuntin]

I was kind of thinking that people spoke up that are against a person having a sidearm during the archery season and didn't want them at all. By them including the wording of having to have a CWP this would somehow stop more people from carrying. I know there are people out there that think guns have no place in the archery woods and they think if you feel the need to carry you should hunt modern firearm.

[Kain]

I dont think I should have to give up my rights to carry just because I choose to buy an archery deer tag.  I guess I just dont understand why people think they should limit someones rights just because they might break the law.  This is what the gun control crowd believes also.  You take away someones rights AFTER they have broken the law.  The idea that hunters would support gun control on one of their own seems crazy to me.  The same guys that would scream bloody murder if they were not allowed to carry a handgun while rifle hunting think its fine to do it to an archery or muzzle load hunter?   

[whacker1]

Some interesting reading.

[muzzleman]

We live on a open carry state, it is legal to carry a side arm in view.  It is not legal to conceal a side arm without a CPL Which is a Concealed pistol licence.

[Machias]

We live on a open carry state, it is legal to carry a side arm in view.  It is not legal to conceal a side arm without a CPL Which is a Concealed pistol licence.

Yes, we know that, but the WDFW seems to be trying to put in an RCW allowing folks to open carry while bowhunting IF they have a CWP.

[muzzleman]

I see where it is confusing I had only read the muzzleloader portion and the archery is worded differently.

[bobcat]

We live on a open carry state, it is legal to carry a side arm in view.  It is not legal to conceal a side arm without a CPL Which is a Concealed pistol licence.

That is not completely true. It IS legal to "conceal a side arm without a CPL."  As long as you are doing so while you are recreating in the outdoors. As was posted previously in this same thread:

"The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 (carry, including concealed) shall not apply to...
 ...Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area"

[Elkaholic daWg]

  Can't be too bad as a whole....To only have one issue there is a problem with.  (So Far) I always thought  NOT concealed= no need for CWP.

[salmonkiller]

SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

Hunting is not defense of yourself or the state. 

When I spoke with a WDFW officer about the original draft he asked me to look at the wording.  It says for self protection.  And only for ML or bow hunters.  Because modern hunters can carry a sidearm that meets certain criteria.  The public wanted to be able to carry, but the WDFW did not.  And the problem was the state constitution.  The WDFW can't violate that.  They had just not been called to the carpet for this yet.  Thus the WDFW came up with the CPL clause to get around thet.  This state is an open carry state but if you do concealed a pistol and do not have a CPL you will be arested.  Even if you are engaged in a lawful outdoor activity.  Carry it exposed and you are OK.

[bobcat]

This state is an open carry state but if you do concealed a pistol and do not have a CPL you will be arested.  Even if you are engaged in a lawful outdoor activity.  Carry it exposed and you are OK.

That is not true. Did you read what I posted above?

"The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 (carry, including concealed) shall not apply to...
 ...Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area"

[Machias]

SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

Hunting is not defense of yourself or the state. 

When I spoke with a WDFW officer about the original draft he asked me to look at the wording.  It says for self protection.  And only for ML or bow hunters.  Because modern hunters can carry a sidearm that meets certain criteria.  The public wanted to be able to carry, but the WDFW did not.  And the problem was the state constitution.  The WDFW can't violate that.  They had just not been called to the carpet for this yet.  Thus the WDFW came up with the CPL clause to get around thet.  This state is an open carry state but if you do concealed a pistol and do not have a CPL you will be arested.  Even if you are engaged in a lawful outdoor activity.  Carry it exposed and you are OK.

Welcome to the site, however your first post is dead wrong.  See bold section below:

RCW 9.41.060
Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms. 

The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

     (1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;

     (2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

     (3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

     (4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

     (5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

     (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

     (7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

     ( 8 ) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

     (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

     (10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.


[2005 c 453 § 3; 1998 c 253 § 2; 1996 c 295 § 5; 1995 c 392 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 406; 1961 c 124 § 5; 1935 c 172 § 6; RRS § 2516-6.]


Notes:
     Severability -- 2005 c 453: See note following RCW 9.41.040.

     Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.


     Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.

[InsideWDFW]

Read through this thread and you guys are right.. sort of.

While both the state and federal Constitutions allow you to care firearms, there are exceptions.  For those with a CWP you know you can't carry in a bar, casino, schools, ect.  A business can post notice that firearms are not allowed on property and this usually leaves you the choice of leaving your weapon off premise, or not gracing the establishment with your presence.

When you purchase your hunting license, you agree to abide by all the rules and regulations set forth yada yada.  If the rules and regulations state that you cannot carry a firearm while hunting archery, then you can't or you don't hunt.  You voluntary agree not to carry a firearm.  The state does not force you to give up your right, you chose to follow all rules and regulations when you purchased the license - even to the point of not carrying a firearm.

Section 8 of RCW 9.41.060 doesn't restrict hunters, but it also doesn't automatically grant the right either.  It's an exception to RCW 9.41.050.  Nothing more.  Other laws can (and do) restrict this section.

So why did WDFW change the regulation?  Basically it's not worth the fight.  According to the AG's office any court case would have gone our way.  Hunting in Washington is a privilege, not a right.  This is the reason why hunting privileges can be revoked without going to a court.  It's just not worth the millions of dollars and time that would go into a court case.

So why only CWP holders?  Safety for everyone in the woods.  The last thing we want to see his a 14 year old kid running down a hillside with a glock down his pants.  If a few years pass without incident, it might be revised.  All depends on how smart people are about this.

[Machias]

That's so nice of the Department.   

"So why only CWP holders?  Safety for everyone in the woods.  The last thing we want to see his a 14 year old kid running down a hillside with a glock down his pants.  If a few years pass without incident, it might be revised.  All depends on how smart people are about this." 

Ah it's already illegal for a 14 year old to carry or anyone under 21, correct.  Dang you folks just piss me off.  You all have the mentality that all hunters and fisherman are just a bunch of crooks waiting to commit a crime.  Sheesh, thanks for protecting us from ourselves.

[Kain]

Because 14 year olds that rifle hunt are way more responsible than 14 year olds that archery or muzzle load hunt?  Why is there no CWP required for modern firearms then?  They are just being ridiculous.  The simple fact is that CWP requirement does not belong in the hunting regulations because it is not required by the law to carry while hunting concealed or not.  I am not a criminal and will not be treated like one.

[InsideWDFW]

That's so nice of the Department.   

"So why only CWP holders?  Safety for everyone in the woods.  The last thing we want to see his a 14 year old kid running down a hillside with a glock down his pants.  If a few years pass without incident, it might be revised.  All depends on how smart people are about this." 

Ah it's already illegal for a 14 year old to carry or anyone under 21, correct.  Dang you folks just piss me off.  You all have the mentality that all hunters and fisherman are just a bunch of crooks waiting to commit a crime.  Sheesh, thanks for protecting us from ourselves.

It's illegal for those under 21 to purchase a handgun, not carry.  If the age to purchase was the same age to carry you wouldn't see any modern hunters under the age of 18.  Now to have a CWP is 18 (or 21, it's been a few years since I got mine).

Climbing down a hillside with a sidearm in your belt, especially if you are excited after getting that 4 point, is a bit different then walking down a side walk.  The very last thing we need some newspaper writing a story about how all hunters are running around armed to the teeth in the middle of hiking season.

[Machias]

"Climbing down a hillside with a sidearm in your belt, especially if you are excited after getting that 4 point, is a bit different then walking down a side walk.  The very last thing we need some newspaper writing a story about how all hunters are running around armed to the teeth in the middle of hiking season." 

What in the wide wide world of flying F does that have to do with anything???  LOTS of hikers are already armed, your not really that much of a DUMB @$$ are you???  You folks are not in touch with reality, my god, that statement is just amazing.

[InsideWDFW]

"Climbing down a hillside with a sidearm in your belt, especially if you are excited after getting that 4 point, is a bit different then walking down a side walk.  The very last thing we need some newspaper writing a story about how all hunters are running around armed to the teeth in the middle of hiking season." 

What in the wide wide world of flying F does that have to do with anything???  LOTS of hikers are already armed, your not really that much of a DUMB @$$ are you???  You folks are not in touch with reality, my god, that statement is just amazing.

Why do I try.. yea there are hundreds of people armed in the woods, both hunters and non, but all it takes is ONE incident of a hunter messing up and the press is all over it.  You do remember Sauk don't you?  You don't have the faintest clue how much politicking was done by WDFW in order to keep all sorts of whacky legislation at bay including the out right banning of ALL hunting during August and September.  57 people died last year while hiking, you tell me what story the gun-hating public remembers.

[Machias]

THEY SHOULDN"T BE POLTICING AT ALL!!!!  They should be managing wildlife through SCIENTIFIC METHODS!!  That is you guys fricken problem you have LOST YOUR FOCUS and BEARING.  It's frustrating, I grew up with one of the best run Fish and Game Department in Missouri, they worked with sportsmen and farmers and managed the wildlife, not the polititcians.     

[InsideWDFW]

THEY SHOULDN"T BE POLTICING AT ALL!!!!  They should be managing wildlife through SCIENTIFIC METHODS!!  That is you guys fricken problem you have LOST YOUR FOCUS and BEARING.  It's frustrating, I grew up with one of the best run Fish and Game Department in Missouri, they worked with sportsmen and farmers and managed the wildlife, not the polititcians.     

I agree 100% Machias.  Those of us who have spent thousands of dollars on an education and and the focused our lives on wildlife want nothing more then to be left alone to do it to the best of our abilities.

In this day and age it's ALL about politics.  We have to play the game if we want anything good to come from our hard work.  If you want someone to be mad at, talk to your legislature and your local news organization.  They ultimately have greater control over managing wildlife in Washington then the PhD living out of a tent in the field.

[whacker1]

InsideWDFW - thanks for your feedback.  Although I may not agree with everything - you have given me much to think about and feedback that we wouldn't normally have.  I agree politicking is far too much of the process, but definitely part of the game in WA State more so than other states. 

This sort of dialogue is good it creates transparency for many of the folks that wouldn't normally get to hear what you have to say.   Again, not everybody is going to agree with you or WDFW, but it least keeps more people informed of what is going on in the inside.