WDFW final recommendations for 2009-11

[whacker1]

Some interesting reading.

[muzzleman]

We live on a open carry state, it is legal to carry a side arm in view.  It is not legal to conceal a side arm without a CPL Which is a Concealed pistol licence.

[Machias]

We live on a open carry state, it is legal to carry a side arm in view.  It is not legal to conceal a side arm without a CPL Which is a Concealed pistol licence.

Yes, we know that, but the WDFW seems to be trying to put in an RCW allowing folks to open carry while bowhunting IF they have a CWP.

[muzzleman]

I see where it is confusing I had only read the muzzleloader portion and the archery is worded differently.

[bobcat]

We live on a open carry state, it is legal to carry a side arm in view.  It is not legal to conceal a side arm without a CPL Which is a Concealed pistol licence.

That is not completely true. It IS legal to "conceal a side arm without a CPL."  As long as you are doing so while you are recreating in the outdoors. As was posted previously in this same thread:

"The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 (carry, including concealed) shall not apply to...
 ...Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area"

[Elkaholic daWg]

  Can't be too bad as a whole....To only have one issue there is a problem with.  (So Far) I always thought  NOT concealed= no need for CWP.

[salmonkiller]

SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

Hunting is not defense of yourself or the state. 

When I spoke with a WDFW officer about the original draft he asked me to look at the wording.  It says for self protection.  And only for ML or bow hunters.  Because modern hunters can carry a sidearm that meets certain criteria.  The public wanted to be able to carry, but the WDFW did not.  And the problem was the state constitution.  The WDFW can't violate that.  They had just not been called to the carpet for this yet.  Thus the WDFW came up with the CPL clause to get around thet.  This state is an open carry state but if you do concealed a pistol and do not have a CPL you will be arested.  Even if you are engaged in a lawful outdoor activity.  Carry it exposed and you are OK.

[bobcat]

This state is an open carry state but if you do concealed a pistol and do not have a CPL you will be arested.  Even if you are engaged in a lawful outdoor activity.  Carry it exposed and you are OK.

That is not true. Did you read what I posted above?

"The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 (carry, including concealed) shall not apply to...
 ...Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area"

[Machias]

SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

Hunting is not defense of yourself or the state. 

When I spoke with a WDFW officer about the original draft he asked me to look at the wording.  It says for self protection.  And only for ML or bow hunters.  Because modern hunters can carry a sidearm that meets certain criteria.  The public wanted to be able to carry, but the WDFW did not.  And the problem was the state constitution.  The WDFW can't violate that.  They had just not been called to the carpet for this yet.  Thus the WDFW came up with the CPL clause to get around thet.  This state is an open carry state but if you do concealed a pistol and do not have a CPL you will be arested.  Even if you are engaged in a lawful outdoor activity.  Carry it exposed and you are OK.

Welcome to the site, however your first post is dead wrong.  See bold section below:

RCW 9.41.060
Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms. 

The provisions of RCW 9.41.050 shall not apply to:

     (1) Marshals, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens or their deputies, or other law enforcement officers of this state or another state;

     (2) Members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves, when on duty;

     (3) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed pistol;

     (4) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of the person, if possessing, using, or carrying a pistol in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

     (5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state;

     (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

     (7) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of modern and antique firearm collecting, when those members are at or are going to or from their collector's gun shows and exhibits;

     ( 8 ) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

     (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

     (10) Law enforcement officers retired for service or physical disabilities, except for those law enforcement officers retired because of mental or stress-related disabilities. This subsection applies only to a retired officer who has: (a) Obtained documentation from a law enforcement agency within Washington state from which he or she retired that is signed by the agency's chief law enforcement officer and that states that the retired officer was retired for service or physical disability; and (b) not been convicted or found not guilty by reason of insanity of a crime making him or her ineligible for a concealed pistol license.


[2005 c 453 § 3; 1998 c 253 § 2; 1996 c 295 § 5; 1995 c 392 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 406; 1961 c 124 § 5; 1935 c 172 § 6; RRS § 2516-6.]


Notes:
     Severability -- 2005 c 453: See note following RCW 9.41.040.

     Finding -- Intent -- Severability -- 1994 sp.s. c 7: See notes following RCW 43.70.540.


     Effective date -- 1994 sp.s. c 7 §§ 401-410, 413-416, 418-437, and 439-460: See note following RCW 9.41.010.

[InsideWDFW]

Read through this thread and you guys are right.. sort of.

While both the state and federal Constitutions allow you to care firearms, there are exceptions.  For those with a CWP you know you can't carry in a bar, casino, schools, ect.  A business can post notice that firearms are not allowed on property and this usually leaves you the choice of leaving your weapon off premise, or not gracing the establishment with your presence.

When you purchase your hunting license, you agree to abide by all the rules and regulations set forth yada yada.  If the rules and regulations state that you cannot carry a firearm while hunting archery, then you can't or you don't hunt.  You voluntary agree not to carry a firearm.  The state does not force you to give up your right, you chose to follow all rules and regulations when you purchased the license - even to the point of not carrying a firearm.

Section 8 of RCW 9.41.060 doesn't restrict hunters, but it also doesn't automatically grant the right either.  It's an exception to RCW 9.41.050.  Nothing more.  Other laws can (and do) restrict this section.

So why did WDFW change the regulation?  Basically it's not worth the fight.  According to the AG's office any court case would have gone our way.  Hunting in Washington is a privilege, not a right.  This is the reason why hunting privileges can be revoked without going to a court.  It's just not worth the millions of dollars and time that would go into a court case.

So why only CWP holders?  Safety for everyone in the woods.  The last thing we want to see his a 14 year old kid running down a hillside with a glock down his pants.  If a few years pass without incident, it might be revised.  All depends on how smart people are about this.

[Machias]

That's so nice of the Department.   

"So why only CWP holders?  Safety for everyone in the woods.  The last thing we want to see his a 14 year old kid running down a hillside with a glock down his pants.  If a few years pass without incident, it might be revised.  All depends on how smart people are about this." 

Ah it's already illegal for a 14 year old to carry or anyone under 21, correct.  Dang you folks just piss me off.  You all have the mentality that all hunters and fisherman are just a bunch of crooks waiting to commit a crime.  Sheesh, thanks for protecting us from ourselves.

[Kain]

Because 14 year olds that rifle hunt are way more responsible than 14 year olds that archery or muzzle load hunt?  Why is there no CWP required for modern firearms then?  They are just being ridiculous.  The simple fact is that CWP requirement does not belong in the hunting regulations because it is not required by the law to carry while hunting concealed or not.  I am not a criminal and will not be treated like one.

[InsideWDFW]

That's so nice of the Department.   

"So why only CWP holders?  Safety for everyone in the woods.  The last thing we want to see his a 14 year old kid running down a hillside with a glock down his pants.  If a few years pass without incident, it might be revised.  All depends on how smart people are about this." 

Ah it's already illegal for a 14 year old to carry or anyone under 21, correct.  Dang you folks just piss me off.  You all have the mentality that all hunters and fisherman are just a bunch of crooks waiting to commit a crime.  Sheesh, thanks for protecting us from ourselves.

It's illegal for those under 21 to purchase a handgun, not carry.  If the age to purchase was the same age to carry you wouldn't see any modern hunters under the age of 18.  Now to have a CWP is 18 (or 21, it's been a few years since I got mine).

Climbing down a hillside with a sidearm in your belt, especially if you are excited after getting that 4 point, is a bit different then walking down a side walk.  The very last thing we need some newspaper writing a story about how all hunters are running around armed to the teeth in the middle of hiking season.

[Machias]

"Climbing down a hillside with a sidearm in your belt, especially if you are excited after getting that 4 point, is a bit different then walking down a side walk.  The very last thing we need some newspaper writing a story about how all hunters are running around armed to the teeth in the middle of hiking season." 

What in the wide wide world of flying F does that have to do with anything???  LOTS of hikers are already armed, your not really that much of a DUMB @$$ are you???  You folks are not in touch with reality, my god, that statement is just amazing.

[InsideWDFW]

"Climbing down a hillside with a sidearm in your belt, especially if you are excited after getting that 4 point, is a bit different then walking down a side walk.  The very last thing we need some newspaper writing a story about how all hunters are running around armed to the teeth in the middle of hiking season." 

What in the wide wide world of flying F does that have to do with anything???  LOTS of hikers are already armed, your not really that much of a DUMB @$$ are you???  You folks are not in touch with reality, my god, that statement is just amazing.

Why do I try.. yea there are hundreds of people armed in the woods, both hunters and non, but all it takes is ONE incident of a hunter messing up and the press is all over it.  You do remember Sauk don't you?  You don't have the faintest clue how much politicking was done by WDFW in order to keep all sorts of whacky legislation at bay including the out right banning of ALL hunting during August and September.  57 people died last year while hiking, you tell me what story the gun-hating public remembers.