WDFW Buying More Wolf Habitat

[WAcoueshunter]

So here's a map I found that illustrates where the deer are vs where the predators are. 

red = predator area
yellow = deer area

make of it what you will 

   Looks like deer like alfalfa?  Is that news? 

[Karl Blanchard]

So here's a map I found that illustrates where the deer are vs where the predators are. 

red = predator area
yellow = deer area

make of it what you will 

   Looks like deer like alfalfa?  Is that news?

  I wasnt gonna go there but in my experience in both areas with and without wolves, if theres agriculture, that's where the volume of deer are at 

[jackelope]

Also wondering the source of the map.

[NOCK NOCK]

So I'm confused, Very few deer, but there's roadkill?  Where did the roadkill come from?

Ignorant guy here...…... .

No Comment........
[/quote]


  at least you got it.

I'm not a wolf lover, or hater, but i do like to base my thoughts on fact, not fiction.

To me its really simple, Predators eat prey.(fact) Both species will fluctuate populations depending on how the other is doing.(fact) The Methow deer herd has been historically low for several years now(fact) so why the drastic increase in predators(wolf/lion)? 
To blame all of, or the majority of, the deer herds reduction on wolf/cat predation is fiction.

[idahohuntr]

I'm not a wolf lover, or hater, but i do like to base my thoughts on fact, not fiction.

Well stated.  My thoughts exactly.

Also wondering the source of the map.

My guess was a young child with crayons...completely fabricated and fictitious and not based on any actual wildlife data.   

[Bob33]

Looks good to me. The predators have no impact on deer since they stay away from them.

[bigmacc]

So I'm confused, Very few deer, but there's roadkill?  Where did the roadkill come from?

Ignorant guy here...…... .

No Comment........

  at least you got it.

I'm not a wolf lover, or hater, but i do like to base my thoughts on fact, not fiction.

To me its really simple, Predators eat prey.(fact) Both species will fluctuate populations depending on how the other is doing.(fact) The Methow deer herd has been historically low for several years now(fact) so why the drastic increase in predators(wolf/lion)? 
To blame all of, or the majority of, the deer herds reduction on wolf/cat predation is fiction.
[/quote]

For NOCK NOCK

I will chime in as far as the Methow goes, you are right about the herd "being historically low for several years now". What you may be missing is that it has been low for periods at a time through history and has always bounced back. Historically this herd has been darn near bullet proof. Winters of 68-69, winters of 36-37, winters of 18-19, horrible winters in the  70,s and 90,s and 10 year draughts, throw in some fires too going back 100 years if you like. Thousands and thousands of deer perished, especially 68-69 where its estimated anywhere from 5-9 thousand died. I told stories in another thread of what my dad and I witnessed during that winter. The herd bounced back within 3 to 6 years.  In its day, at its peak it fluctuated anywhere from 30-40 thousand head(50,s and 60,s), the herd held fairly stable numbers through the 70,s ,80,s and 90,s with some minor ups and downs. This herd has been declining for 20-25 years with no "bouncing back", is it just a coincidence that is roughly when predator numbers began going through the roof? you tell me. it continues to fall, its roughly half the size of its historic numbers and continues to plummet.This herd (was at one time) THE largest migrating herd in the country, bar none. Predators are pounding this herd PERIOD and bouncing back is not happening until that issue is addressed. With all do respect, this once thriving herd, the largest in the country has been devastated by ALL predators including a new one(wolf) that has been roaming this valley for at least 25 years (that I myself know of). Now throw in exploding cougar and bear populations, well somethings gonna give, this herd is still "alive" but barely.....Eventually the predators will be gone or reduced, some will starve but only when this herds been reduced to the point that makes your scenario possible, "both species will fluctuate depending on how the others doing", which for me, concerning this particular herd is a very sad way to look at things, something could and should be done through management concerning predators in this state.....sorry, rant over. and yes, they have heard from me.

[KFhunter]

Just to be clear I made the map wuth a digital crayon.  I did put a :wink:

A young child woul have done better, Om not so good with a phone, they laugh at my single thumb typing

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[NOCK NOCK]

So I'm confused, Very few deer, but there's roadkill?  Where did the roadkill come from?

Ignorant guy here...…... .

No Comment........

  at least you got it.

I'm not a wolf lover, or hater, but i do like to base my thoughts on fact, not fiction.

To me its really simple, Predators eat prey.(fact) Both species will fluctuate populations depending on how the other is doing.(fact) The Methow deer herd has been historically low for several years now(fact) so why the drastic increase in predators(wolf/lion)? 
To blame all of, or the majority of, the deer herds reduction on wolf/cat predation is fiction.

For NOCK NOCK

I will chime in as far as the Methow goes, you are right about the herd "being historically low for several years now". What you may be missing is that it has been low for periods at a time through history and has always bounced back. Historically this herd has been darn near bullet proof. Winters of 68-69, winters of 36-37, winters of 18-19, horrible winters in the  70,s and 90,s and 10 year draughts, throw in some fires too going back 100 years if you like. Thousands and thousands of deer perished, especially 68-69 where its estimated anywhere from 5-9 thousand died. I told stories in another thread of what my dad and I witnessed during that winter. The herd bounced back within 3 to 6 years.  In its day, at its peak it fluctuated anywhere from 30-40 thousand head(50,s and 60,s), the herd held fairly stable numbers through the 70,s ,80,s and 90,s with some minor ups and downs. This herd has been declining for 20-25 years with no "bouncing back", is it just a coincidence that is roughly when predator numbers began going through the roof? you tell me. it continues to fall, its roughly half the size of its historic numbers and continues to plummet.This herd (was at one time) THE largest migrating herd in the country, bar none. Predators are pounding this herd PERIOD and bouncing back is not happening until that issue is addressed. With all do respect, this once thriving herd, the largest in the country has been devastated by ALL predators including a new one(wolf) that has been roaming this valley for at least 25 years (that I myself know of). Now throw in exploding cougar and bear populations, well somethings gonna give, this herd is still "alive" but barely.....Eventually the predators will be gone or reduced, some will starve but only when this herds been reduced to the point that makes your scenario possible, "both species will fluctuate depending on how the others doing", which for me, concerning this particular herd is a very sad way to look at things, something could and should be done through management concerning predators in this state.....sorry, rant over. and yes, they have heard from me.
[/quote]





With all due respect, Your not getting the point. I am all for better predator management, but refuse to put all the blame on predators for the declining herds.

Mule deer and predators have coexisted for longer than your above stated times. Why are the predators just now decimating the herds?

Human predator numbers have also "exploded" in the valley. Do you believe they have an effect on deer herd health?
Do you believe hard winters kill deer?
Do you believe fires kill deer?
Is it just a coincidence  that herds started declining at the same time frame humans started increasing?

Or, is it all to blame on the wolves and cats?

Have you killed any of these massive amounts of predators? Cat? Bear? Reading your posts you say you have seen lots of them...……. kill some...... help the deer out.

I am not trying to argue, or call you out, as I am positive you are a stand up guy, but just tired of seeing all the blame put on predators as the ONLY reason herds are declining. (FICTION)

[boneaddict]

There is a History for all of you and what I believe the inspiration to the thread title, whether you choose to believe it or not...is it worth my time writing it down for all of you, probably not.
but there is history.
Any land purchased for wildlife to prevent a house from going up on it, GOOD IMO, especially in the Methow

[mburrows]

There is a History for all of you and what I believe the inspiration to the thread title, whether you choose to believe it or not...is it worth my time writing it down for all of you, probably not.
but there is history.
Any land purchased for wildlife to prevent a house from going up on it, GOOD IMO, especially in the Methow

  Wolves are bad for them but habitat lose is even worse for mule deer.

[wolfbait]

There is a History for all of you and what I believe the inspiration to the thread title, whether you choose to believe it or not...is it worth my time writing it down for all of you, probably not.
but there is history.
Any land purchased for wildlife to prevent a house from going up on it, GOOD IMO, especially in the Methow

  Wolves are bad for them but habitat lose is even worse for mule deer.

If it wasn't for the "homes" habitat there would a hell of a lot less deer then there are now. Where ever there is a wolf problem the ungulates move to town or around people.

For the record I don't like how the Methow has grown either, but I can tell you, it isn't the homes built everywhere that's killing the ungulates, and WDFW buying up more land isn't going to help the deer etc. at this point. Strict predator control on the other hand would.

WDFW's land grab isn't about habitat for deer etc., it's been plain to see for many years now that WDFW don't have any intention of any positive management for deer etc.. Predators on the other hand are protected above all else.

[timberfaller]

As WDFW manages wildlife, their management of "land grabs" is of the same caliber!! on both counts!

[jackelope]

In no particular order.....

Predators
Habitat
Fires
Humans
Lack of legitimate feed
Road kill
Development
Over-harvest
I'm sure some of them fall together, and I'm sure I left a few out.

My point is we're all in it for the same goal. Sitting around on the internet slinging insults back and forth and insinuating one doesn't know enough to have a quality opinion is just plain dumb. Us hunters and sportsmen not coming together as 1 consolidated group and dealing with each issue to the best of our ability will be the single most detrimental factor to the future of hunting...or lack thereof.
Seems like some people don't understand that and just want to argue to hear themselves argue.

 

[7mmfan]

In no particular order.....

Predators
Habitat
Fires
Humans
Lack of legitimate feed
Road kill
Development
Over-harvest
I'm sure some of them fall together, and I'm sure I left a few out.

My point is we're all in it for the same goal. Sitting around on the internet slinging insults back and forth and insinuating one doesn't know enough to have a quality opinion is just plain dumb. Us hunters and sportsmen not coming together as 1 consolidated group and dealing with each issue to the best of our ability will be the single most detrimental factor to the future of hunting...or lack thereof.
Seems like some people don't understand that and just want to argue to hear themselves argue.

This