GoHunt to publish WA odds

[Karl Blanchard]

New hunters have been swinging it for a long long time.  The struggle is not unique to you my man.  If anything you have it far better than folks before you.  Gear is better, scouting tools are better, and access to information and other hunters who can teach is FAR better 

[MtnMuley]

New hunters have been swinging it for a long long time.  The struggle is not unique to you my man.  If anything you have it far better than folks before you.  Gear is better, scouting tools are better, and access to information and other hunters who can teach is FAR better 

I've heard that 10% of the hunters harvest 90% of the animals. I think everything you said is likely true. I think that doesn't change the fact that the sport is losing participation rapidly and we're all sitting around clinging to a system that we know 1.) doesn't work and 2.) discourages new hunters.

But never mind what I have to say about it, just watch the numbers.

I will guarantee that 10% of the hunters don't harvest 90% of the game.  However, there is a good portion of seasoned hunters who harvest significantly larger percentages than your average "couple of weekends a year" type hunters. 

Also, it's hard to nevermind what you have to say about it when you keep talking about it.

[Karl Blanchard]

Washingtons draw system works just fine.  People apply for a chance to win a tag.  Sometimes you win, other times you lose.  For species like moose sheep and goat, there are simply too few tags for so many applicants.  Literally every state in the lower 48 have the same issue.  For species like deer and Elk, usually when guys are sitting on Max points it's because they are applying for the top-tier tags in the state that have incredibly low draw odds. Or they have just been building points and not actually applying. If someone falls into that category that is no one's fault but their own.

I have said it a million times on this forum that if people started looking at the drawers as an added opportunity at a good tag not something that is owed to them they would have less stress in their lives. You paid for a chance to win and you didn't win. It's as simple as that the next year you'll pay for a chance to win again and who knows you might be the lucky one. I had a good friend draw a Moose tag last year with three points. He would not have gotten that tag if he had not played the game.

[bobcat]

The point system/poor draw odds here in Washington should be mostly irrelevant in the lack of recruitment of new hunters, since the majority of the hunting in this state is with over the counter deer and elk tags. When I first started hunting around 35 years ago, most people didn't bother applying for any special permits. I think a large percentage of the hunters back then didn't even know the special permits existed. Even now there's plenty of hunting that can be done without ever applying for a special permit. The biggest issue now for new hunters, in my opinion, is a lack of places to hunt close to where they live.

[Karl Blanchard]

Some of the very best hunters I know picked it up late in life.  Hadno direction but had the drive to succeed.  I believe Part of the issue with dwindling Hunter recruitment is the fact that we live in an immediate gratification Society. If people don't have instant success at something or it's hard, they just give up or don't try. 

I Turkey hunted for 6 years before I even heard my first gobble.  God I wanted to give that crap up but the drive to accomplish a goal was greater than my desire to hit the snooze button at 3 a.m.

[Karl Blanchard]

The point system/poor draw odds here in Washington should be mostly irrelevant in the lack of recruitment of new hunters, since the majority of the hunting in this state is with over the counter deer and elk tags. When I first started hunting around 35 years ago, most people didn't bother applying for any special permits. I think a large percentage of the hunters back then didn't even know the special permits existed. Even now there's plenty of hunting that can be done without ever applying for a special permit. The biggest issue now for new hunters, in my opinion, is a lack of places to hunt close to where they live.

study after study points to lack/loss of access as the number one driver in hunter recruitment and retention.

[andrew_in_idaho]

Some of the very best hunters I know picked it up late in life.  Hadno direction but had the drive to succeed.  I believe Part of the issue with dwindling Hunter recruitment is the fact that we live in an immediate gratification Society. If people don't have instant success at something or it's hard, they just give up or don't try. 

I Turkey hunted for 6 years before I even heard my first gobble.  God I wanted to give that crap up but the drive to accomplish a goal was greater than my desire to hit the snooze button at 3 a.m.

That's a cop-out. The instant-gratification thing is true of our society, for sure, but to suggest *that* is why it's hard for new hunters is pure nonsense. Six years in gets you a four year degree and almost through a masters degree. To suggest that someone who doesn't have that level of commitment to the sport is looking for instant success is the kind of condescending attitude that belongs in the woods.
By yourself.

You’re proving his point, it takes a level of commitment and a drive to succeed to be successful at hunting, you can’t just pick up a rifle and head out to the woods and ask the deer to jump in the back of your truck, that is why “instant gratification society” does not stick with it.


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[Karl Blanchard]

Some of the very best hunters I know picked it up late in life.  Hadno direction but had the drive to succeed.  I believe Part of the issue with dwindling Hunter recruitment is the fact that we live in an immediate gratification Society. If people don't have instant success at something or it's hard, they just give up or don't try. 

I Turkey hunted for 6 years before I even heard my first gobble.  God I wanted to give that crap up but the drive to accomplish a goal was greater than my desire to hit the snooze button at 3 a.m.

That's a cop-out. The instant-gratification thing is true of our society, for sure, but to suggest *that* is why it's hard for new hunters is pure nonsense. Six years in gets you a four year degree and almost through a masters degree. To suggest that someone who doesn't have that level of commitment to the sport is looking for instant success is the kind of condescending attitude that belongs in the woods.
By yourself.

settle down and read again sir.  PART of the issue is what I said, aka one of multiple reasons.  I'm aware that you are a new Hunter but I know of many new Hunters who absolutely gave up for that exact reason so to say it's a cop out or not true is not an accurate statement.

The point behind the Turkey story is that I didnt have anyone to show me how to do it.  I had to figure that crap out on my own.  There was no internet, YouTube, etc.  I had an old knight and hale how to call cassette and that was it.  I kept grinding until i figured it out.

If you want to get nasty and throw in sideways insults about my attitude belonging in the woods by myself that's fine. Probably dont wanna take a head count of folks on this forum alone that I have helped publicly as well as through PM though 

[HoofsandWings]

A new hunter should hone his skills before applying for a permit. There are lots of animals that you can hunt without a permit.
My advice is meet a seasoned hunter and apply for a group permit.  If you get the permit, as a newbie, there are dishes to wash, wood to chop, meals to make, clothes to wash in addition to hunting.

[grundy53]

Well said!

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[Bob33]

I always consider permits a bonus and don't rely on them. To me every animal taken legally and ethically is a trophy. There are quite a few factors leading to declines in hunter numbers. These are the ones I think are higher on the list:

Loss of land access is clearly a major factor.

Lack of mentors. Many of us started hunting with someone to help us learn the ropes.

Greater emphasis on big game. We drew up hunting band tailed pigeons, rabbits, upland birds, and waterfowl. One deer hunt and maybe one elk hunt per year.
Average success for deer in Washington is something like 25%; elk is less than 10%. With band-tailed pigeons we’d burn through a box of shells a day. Many of the places we used to freely hunt pheasants have none now and those that do have no access. It’s tougher to stay committed when you may get to shoot once every ten years. Couple loss of small game opportunity with losses to ungulates due to predation and other factors and it all adds up.

Travel times. We would leave Seattle after school/work on Friday afternoons and drive to Bethel Ridge to hunt elk. I don’t think we’d get out of Seattle now by the time we’d have been camping back then.

Busy lifestyles.

There seem to be far more distractions now. Youth are drawn to electronic devices that didn't exist when I started hunting.

Social pressures and urbanization: hunters make up 3% to 4% of our state's population.

Desire for quicker gratification. I hunted elk for 15 years and saw one legal bull. I doubt too many younger hunters would tolerate that now.

[grundy53]

The point system/poor draw odds here in Washington should be mostly irrelevant in the lack of recruitment of new hunters, since the majority of the hunting in this state is with over the counter deer and elk tags. When I first started hunting around 35 years ago, most people didn't bother applying for any special permits. I think a large percentage of the hunters back then didn't even know the special permits existed. Even now there's plenty of hunting that can be done without ever applying for a special permit. The biggest issue now for new hunters, in my opinion, is a lack of places to hunt close to where they live.

Exactly. Access to good habit is getting harder/more expensive in this state. On top of that in mule deer country good habitat doesn't necessarily mean there are deer there.

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[grundy53]

Some of the very best hunters I know picked it up late in life.  Hadno direction but had the drive to succeed.  I believe Part of the issue with dwindling Hunter recruitment is the fact that we live in an immediate gratification Society. If people don't have instant success at something or it's hard, they just give up or don't try. 

I Turkey hunted for 6 years before I even heard my first gobble.  God I wanted to give that crap up but the drive to accomplish a goal was greater than my desire to hit the snooze button at 3 a.m.

That's a cop-out. The instant-gratification thing is true of our society, for sure, but to suggest *that* is why it's hard for new hunters is pure nonsense. Six years in gets you a four year degree and almost through a masters degree. To suggest that someone who doesn't have that level of commitment to the sport is looking for instant success is the kind of condescending attitude that belongs in the woods.
By yourself.

settle down and read again sir.  PART of the issue is what I said, aka one of multiple reasons.  I'm aware that you are a new Hunter but I know of many new Hunters who absolutely gave up for that exact reason so to say it's a cop out or not true is not an accurate statement.

The point behind the Turkey story is that I didnt have anyone to show me how to do it.  I had to figure that crap out on my own.  There was no internet, YouTube, etc.  I had an old knight and hale how to call cassette and that was it.  I kept grinding until i figured it out.

If you want to get nasty and throw in sideways insults about my attitude belonging in the woods by myself that's fine. Probably dont wanna take a head count of folks on this forum alone that I have helped publicly as well as through PM though 

Karl has helped out a ton of folks on here. Me included.

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[Karl Blanchard]

I always consider permits a bonus and don't rely on them. To me every animal taken legally and ethically is a trophy. There are quite a few factors leading to declines in hunter numbers. These are the ones I think are higher on the list:

Loss of land access is clearly a major factor.

Lack of mentors. Many of us started hunting with someone to help us learn the ropes.

Greater emphasis on big game. We drew up hunting band tailed pigeons, rabbits, upland birds, and waterfowl. One deer hunt and maybe one elk hunt per year.
Average success for deer in Washington is something like 25%; elk is less than 10%. With band-tailed pigeons we’d burn through a box of shells a day. Many of the places we used to freely hunt pheasants have none now and those that do have no access. It’s tougher to stay committed when you may get to shoot once every ten years. Couple loss of small game opportunity with losses to ungulates due to predation and other factors and it all adds up.

Travel times. We would leave Seattle after school/work on Friday afternoons and drive to Bethel Ridge to hunt elk. I don’t think we’d get out of Seattle now by the time we’d have been camping back then.

Busy lifestyles.

There seem to be far more distractions now. Youth are drawn to electronic devices that didn't exist when I started hunting.

Social pressures and urbanization: hunters make up 3% to 4% of our state's population.

Desire for quicker gratification. I hunted elk for 15 years and saw one legal bull. I doubt too many younger hunters would tolerate that now.

all good points Bob.  Some I would consider excuses rather than valid reasons however(valid in my mind).

The point about small game is is an accurate one. Some of the only success me or my brothers had as kids was on small game.  Granted I'm not that old and it goes to show how quickly times have changed but most of my killing before I could drive was credited to my mother.  Much to her annoyance, I would load my boots, shotgun, and home brew bird vest in her car and make her pick me up from school and take me down to Save on Foods in Selah.  From the parking lot I would walk back past the storage units and hunt the railroad tracks.  Quiall, and ducks mainly but the occasional low flying goose, rabbit, or Wiley pheasant were all fair game.  Not even sure if it was legal but before Columbine nobody cared and I never got in trouble.  Long story short, small game is a gateway drug

[Matth]

I always consider permits a bonus and don't rely on them. To me every animal taken legally and ethically is a trophy. There are quite a few factors leading to declines in hunter numbers. These are the ones I think are higher on the list:

Loss of land access is clearly a major factor.

Lack of mentors. Many of us started hunting with someone to help us learn the ropes.

Greater emphasis on big game. We drew up hunting band tailed pigeons, rabbits, upland birds, and waterfowl. One deer hunt and maybe one elk hunt per year.
Average success for deer in Washington is something like 25%; elk is less than 10%. With band-tailed pigeons we’d burn through a box of shells a day. Many of the places we used to freely hunt pheasants have none now and those that do have no access. It’s tougher to stay committed when you may get to shoot once every ten years. Couple loss of small game opportunity with losses to ungulates due to predation and other factors and it all adds up.

Travel times. We would leave Seattle after school/work on Friday afternoons and drive to Bethel Ridge to hunt elk. I don’t think we’d get out of Seattle now by the time we’d have been camping back then.

Busy lifestyles.

There seem to be far more distractions now. Youth are drawn to electronic devices that didn't exist when I started hunting.

Social pressures and urbanization: hunters make up 3% to 4% of our state's population.

Desire for quicker gratification. I hunted elk for 15 years and saw one legal bull. I doubt too many younger hunters would tolerate that now.

all good points Bob.  Some I would consider excuses rather than valid reasons however(valid in my mind).

The point about small game is is an accurate one. Some of the only success me or my brothers had as kids was on small game.  Granted I'm not that old and it goes to show how quickly times have changed but most of my killing before I could drive was credited to my mother.  Much to her annoyance, I would load my boots, shotgun, and home brew bird vest in her car and make her pick me up from school and take me down to Save on Foods in Selah.  From the parking lot I would walk back past the storage units and hunt the railroad tracks.  Quiall, and ducks mainly but the occasional low flying goose, rabbit, or Wiley pheasant were all fair game.  Not even sure if it was legal but before Columbine nobody cared and I never got in trouble.  Long story short, small game is a gateway drug

All true things. Mine began with a red rider, and grey tree rats, that eat pretty good if i may add. I then graduated to a 4wheeler, and grouse, and rabbits. In an earlier post i made mention of instant gratification being part of a growing problem in our community, and as others have said it is just one part of it. I would also say that some of the arguments to this fact are proving this fact as some hunters lean on Washington's draw odds as if it was an excuse for the lack of production that they have chosen to hang there hat on.

In no way would i ever poke fun at the level of any persons education, but currently i am sitting on about a 30 year degree in deer, and elk hunting, and if i'm being honest with yall it's only been in about the last 10 years i would have considered myself to be good at it.