MOA, explained by an internet expert

[yorketransport]

This was so amazing that I just felt like I had to share it with anyone who didn't see this over on LRH. Here's the back story: A poster asked about magnification for shooting at 1 mile. As usual, everyone chimed in saying that you need ridiculously high magnification to hit anything. I said that I do most of my shooting on 14-15x, including out to 1 mile and that a 30x scope isn't necessary. What followed was one of the most spectacularly nonsensical explanations of MOA as it relates to scope magnification that I've ever read. It's AWESOME!

Target perception at range:

A 1 moa target @ 100 yds sighted with a 1x scope equals a 1 moa target @ 1,000 yds sighted with a 10x scope. Similarly, an moa @ 1,760 with an 18x scope.

If you sight the same 1 moa @ 100 yds with a 4x scope, you need a 40x @ 1,000 to achieve the same scale on an moa target (10").

At 1,760, you would need....?

Uhhh... wrong. Angular measurements do not work that way. I explained the target perception above and the basic math to calculate the required increase in scope magnification to achieve equal perception in the scope and the reticle.

As the distance increases, the magnification to maintain the same optic perception on an moa sized target must increase in the same proportion. I.e. 1x, 5x, 10x, 17.6x and so on. Thus for simplification, I used a 1 moa target at 100 yds with a 1x mag setting. Simple math calc for any 1 moa target at the corresponding change in distance. 500, 1,000, 1,760, 2,000 etc.   In other words, a 1moa target at 1,000 yds (10") with a 10x scope is the same view as a 1 moa target at 100 yds with a 1x scope. Same for a 1 moa target at 1,760 with an 18x scope, and a1 moa at 2,000 is 20x.

So, unless one enjoys shooting at 1 moa dots at 100 yds with a 1x scope, that is the view you have at 1,760 yds with an 18x scope on a 1 moa target (18"). A smaller scope magnification at this range and target size would be similar to sighting at 100 yds at a 1 moa dot with a 3/4x scope or similar.

Since most of  us do not like sighting or zeroing at 1 moa dots at 100 yds with only 1x scopes, for most of us, we use higher magnifications at 100 yds and thus logic the same at 1 mile on an moa target.

This is a basic math calc for angular measurement at increasing distances.
A 14x scope view at 100 yds on a 1 moa dot to "appear the same relative size" on a 1 moa target at 1,760 yds requires: 14 x 17.6= 246

I feel dumber for even reading this!

[Oh Mah]

It's so stupid i lost it in translation.   

We had a guy that tried schooling one of my Q instructors like this,The instructor let him run the full scoop on how it all works  and then embarrassed him severely.It's like a swim team champ joining Coast Guard or a track star becoming a cop.It's all good swimming in a g-string but when your not and it's easy to chase someone down on an even surface with shorts and tennis shoes but when in pants,service belt and vest not so much lol. 

[Stein]

So, what’s the best 246 power scope?  I want one with molle attachments and somewhere to mount a GoPro.  How many clicks for 50 BMG?  Anyone know a range near my house?  What pre-workout powder do you take before shooting?

TIA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NWShooter]

MOA and the Kalashnikov are so simple a kid can use them.

[jasnt]

I seen that today.  I just shake my head

[NWShooter]

So, what’s the best 246 power scope?  I want one with molle attachments and somewhere to mount a GoPro.  How many clicks for 50 BMG?  Anyone know a range near my house?  What pre-workout powder do you take before shooting?

TIA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All you need is some HuntWa Juice and your good to go! It's always a good time. Always some good entertainment.

[Mtnwalker]

Link to the thread? I could use some entertainment

[yorketransport]

Link to the thread? I could use some entertainment

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/scope-power-for-1-760y.215444/

The poor OP tried to get his thread back on track a few times, but it just keeps going off into the weeds. 

I go by Yorke-1 over on LRH, so those are my posts.

[KFhunter]

OMG make it stop!   I can't read no more!

[Mongo Hunter]

Sad part is most cant shoot that far anyway. They spend 3k on a rifle, 2k on a scope and cant even get 1moa @ 100.

[KFhunter]

LR rifles are passe'

now we call them ELR rifles 

[Stein]

Sad part is most cant shoot that far anyway. They spend 3k on a rifle, 2k on a scope and cant even get 1moa @ 100.

For a bunch of people it is more about the social media posting than actually doing something.

[KFhunter]

Sad part is most cant shoot that far anyway. They spend 3k on a rifle, 2k on a scope and cant even get 1moa @ 100.

whoa whoa wait a minute,  they can't get 1 moa at 3x or at 9x power?    If they zoomed in at 9x that moa gets smaller and harder to achieve!



 

[Wetwoodshunter]

 This is gold.

I can go shoot a group at 24x and zoom out to 4x and it instantly shrinks my group if I just tell everyone I shot at 4x!

[The scout]

Link to the thread? I could use some entertainment

https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/scope-power-for-1-760y.215444/

The poor OP tried to get his thread back on track a few times, but it just keeps going off into the weeds. 

I go by Yorke-1 over on LRH, so those are my posts.

That’s some good stuff. I laughed out loud multiple times reading all the posts.

[slavenoid]

My head hurts trying to figure out what he's saying. I give up my vision is starting to blur from reading that too many times.

[yorketransport]

LR rifles are passe'

now we call them ELR rifles 

Theres a guy who I’ve shot with for nearly 10 years and he’s recently started using the term ELR. 10 years ago we just called 1300 yards “really far”, now everything over 1000 is ELR. 

Back then most of folks were shooting 338s and I was the crazy guy with a 375. Now everyone is either going small bore with a 20# 6mm or over the top with a 35# 375 to eliminate the recoil. What happened to the good old days when 24x scopes were high powered and nobody complained about the heavy recoil from a 14# 243?

[jasnt]

LR rifles are passe'

now we call them ELR rifles 

Theres a guy who I’ve shot with for nearly 10 years and he’s recently started using the term ELR. 10 years ago we just called 1300 yards “really far”, now everything over 1000 is ELR. 

Back then most of folks were shooting 338s and I was the crazy guy with a 375. Now everyone is either going small bore with a 20# 6mm or over the top with a 35# 375 to eliminate the recoil. What happened to the good old days when 24x scopes were high powered and nobody complained about the heavy recoil from a 14# 243?

its because anything under 1000 yards is boring 😴  The E is for exciting. 😎

[b23]

Soooo, would 6012 yards (3.4 miles) be called something like EEEELR or Extra Extra Extra Extreme Long Range? 

To even get close, let alone make hits at 6000+ yards is crazy and a TOF of 17 seconds is just fricken wild, that is one he11 of a long time to get there.

[jasnt]

Those guys get to have all the fun

[KFhunter]

Soooo, would 6012 yards (3.4 miles) be called something like EEEELR or Extra Extra Extra Extreme Long Range? 

Naw, it goes like this:
 
LR    = 500 to 1000 yards
ELR  = 1000 to 2000 yards
2LR  = 2000 to 3000 yards
3LR  =3000 to 4000 yards

and then those guys at 6LR!

[b23]

Those guys get to have all the fun

They probably deserve their own topic but that is a seriously crazy distance and I couldn't even imagine waiting 17 seconds for the bullet to get there.  Granted, they're using some very expensive and specialty equipment, but even at that, these guys definitely have their sh1t together.

[jasnt]

Those guys get to have all the fun

They probably deserve their own topic but that is a seriously crazy distance and I couldn't even imagine waiting 17 seconds for the bullet to get there.  Granted, they're using some very expensive and specialty equipment, but even at that, these guys definitely have their sh1t together.

ive seen a bunch of squawking about this shot but I talked to Paul about it on fb. They weren’t trying for any record just out confirming dope and decided to try it for fun

[Alchase]

Soooo, would 6012 yards (3.4 miles) be called something like EEEELR or Extra Extra Extra Extreme Long Range? 

Naw, it goes like this:
 
LR    = 500 to 1000 yards
ELR  = 1000 to 2000 yards
2LR  = 2000 to 3000 yards
3LR  =3000 to 4000 yards

and then those guys at 6LR!

So 6000 would be like “L333333TR”

 

How do the even see 3.4 miles let alone hit it 

[Stein]

What magnification do you need for that?  Meade or Celestron side mount?

[jasnt]

I’m pretty sure he is running 7x35 actar

[Stein]

Not anywhere near enough, didn't you read the thread?

[slavenoid]

Anyone else dying for that "internet expert" opinions of what these guys did wrong on the 3.4 mile shot?

[Stein]

I would be interested in what the calculated hold was, got to be a ton of factors in that distance.

[Alchase]

I would be interested in what the calculated hold was, got to be a ton of factors in that distance.

10 degree up angle, I believe he said

 

[Stein]

I would be interested in what the calculated hold was, got to be a ton of factors in that distance.

10 degree up angle, I believe he said

 

How much windage?

[Alchase]

I would be interested in what the calculated hold was, got to be a ton of factors in that distance.

10 degree up angle, I believe he said

 

How much windage?

625 MOA, (10 degree up angle) from 100 yards, I guess those Barrett 416 cal. 500 GR cutting edge bullets
 “need no stinkin widages”

 

 

They did not talk about windage.

[Redstar]

Clearly all of you are wrong.

Took me no time at all with the googler to find out this mythical Moa everyone is talking about has been extinct for many years. Internet expert, ha! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moa

You're welcome. 

[jasnt]

I would be interested in what the calculated hold was, got to be a ton of factors in that distance.

10 degree up angle, I believe he said

 

How much windage?

625 MOA, (10 degree up angle) from 100 yards, I guess those Barrett 416 cal. 500 GR cutting edge bullets
 “need no stinkin widages”

 

 

They did not talk about windage.

he says he had 20 moa of wind with spindrift and coriolis

[coachcw]

thats why most guys aim at some big at a mile !

[coachcw]

forget wind drift just factor spin drift into it at that range. i sight in at 10 oclock at the edge of the moa circle at 100 yards just so i dont have to add that math into it.

[Alchase]

I would be interested in what the calculated hold was, got to be a ton of factors in that distance.

10 degree up angle, I believe he said

 

How much windage?

625 MOA, (10 degree up angle) from 100 yards, I guess those Barrett 416 cal. 500 GR cutting edge bullets
 “need no stinkin widages”

 

 

They did not talk about windage.

he says he had 20 moa of wind with spindrift and coriolis

I missed that part, LOL

[jasnt]

I would be interested in what the calculated hold was, got to be a ton of factors in that distance.

10 degree up angle, I believe he said

 

How much windage?

625 MOA, (10 degree up angle) from 100 yards, I guess those Barrett 416 cal. 500 GR cutting edge bullets
 “need no stinkin widages”

 

 

They did not talk about windage.

he says he had 20 moa of wind with spindrift and coriolis

I missed that part, LOL

it didn’t state that in the video. I asked Paul this morning about it on Facebook

[DOUBLELUNG]

LR rifles are passe'

now we call them ELR rifles 

Theres a guy who I’ve shot with for nearly 10 years and he’s recently started using the term ELR. 10 years ago we just called 1300 yards “really far”, now everything over 1000 is ELR. 

Back then most of folks were shooting 338s and I was the crazy guy with a 375. Now everyone is either going small bore with a 20# 6mm or over the top with a 35# 375 to eliminate the recoil. What happened to the good old days when 24x scopes were high powered and nobody complained about the heavy recoil from a 14# 243?

its because anything under 1000 yards is boring 😴  The E is for exciting. 😎

I thought it was for erectile?

[Alchase]

I would be interested in what the calculated hold was, got to be a ton of factors in that distance.

10 degree up angle, I believe he said

 

How much windage?

625 MOA, (10 degree up angle) from 100 yards, I guess those Barrett 416 cal. 500 GR cutting edge bullets
 “need no stinkin widages”

 

 

They did not talk about windage.

he says he had 20 moa of wind with spindrift and coriolis

I missed that part, LOL

it didn’t state that in the video. I asked Paul this morning about it on Facebook

Sheesh, Thought I was loosing it watched the video 4 times
LOL

[jasnt]

I would be interested in what the calculated hold was, got to be a ton of factors in that distance.

10 degree up angle, I believe he said

 

How much windage?

625 MOA, (10 degree up angle) from 100 yards, I guess those Barrett 416 cal. 500 GR cutting edge bullets
 “need no stinkin widages”

 

 

They did not talk about windage.

he says he had 20 moa of wind with spindrift and coriolis

I missed that part, LOL

it didn’t state that in the video. I asked Paul this morning about it on Facebook

Sheesh, Thought I was loosing it watched the video 4 times
LOL

[yorketransport]

Not anywhere near enough, didn't you read the thread?

So If I got my math right, I think they had to use a 1800x scope, assuming they were going for the same scale as using roughly a 30x scope on a 1 MOA target at 100 yards.

[Alchase]

You need to refer to yer “gosintas” and yer “whatfers” to do that kind of numberin.

[BULLBLASTER]

I wonder how we could convert to mils? They say mils is always easier....

1 mil per x magnification on scope and 100 meters (because mils means metric). Maybe you get a bonus magnification for measuring in kilometers?

You have to remember to always convert the Moas to mils ans the yards to meters. If you miss one it’s ruined.