Thinking about going muzzle loader for elk

[yorketransport]

I'm not much of an elk hunter, mostly because the modern firearm season doesn't work out with my work schedule. I thought that maybe switching to muzzle loader would work a bit better and just give me something a bit different to play with. I played briefly with a muzzle loader for a few seasons probably 15 years ago and just had a simple CVA . 50 that was good enough for what I was doing at that time, so I'm not completely ignorant to the whole ML thing.

Right now I'm a bit torn between just picking up an Encore with a ML barrel just because they're easy to find for a good price or going a different direction. I'm not looking to spend a ton of money but anything in the $600 range would be good. The Knight Bighorn line seems like a good option in that price range but what does the Bighorn give up to something like the Mountaineer line?

The next big choice is bore diameter. The .50 is the easy and obvious choice but I do love the idea of the .52 which would allow me to use .475 bullets. I have a 480 Ruger that I shoot a lot so I have a good selection of .475 bullets to play with, but I also have a healthy supply of .452 bullets sitting around as well. It looks like going with the .52 limits me to once source for sabots but I'm not sure if that's a big issue. Are you experienced ML guys testing out different sabots and tuning a load similar to swapping primers or powders when reloading rifle ammo?

[grundy53]

I would go with a 209 system unless you are wanting a traditional Hawkins style muzzleloader.

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[WSU]

I think you are over thinking the caliber issue.  Whatever you do, it'll be a big bullet going pretty slow with open sites.  All that limits you far more than anything else.  Get a 50, shoot 3 inch groups at 100 yards, and you can kill elk as far as you can likely shoot well with open sites.

[Moe the Sleaze]

What WSU said, but I'd be fine with 6" groups @ 100 !!!!

[BULLBLASTER]

Is there such a thing and “wildcats” in the muzzy world Yorke?

I’d be a bit disappointed if you grabbed an off the shelf muzzy and took it hunting. 

[ribka]

I’m not an expert but have taken 5 elk and I think around 10 deer with muzzle loader.
Go with big horn or CVA. CVA quality has really improved. Muzzleloaders.com great company to work with.
Basic 50 cal. 209 primer. I prefer loose powder to pellets. I tried a number of the saboted, copper and lead,  rounds and not a big fan. I prefer the Thor or power belt platinum bullets.
Personal choice of course.

Try different bullet and powder combos to see what shoots best with your rifle.

Get a peep for rear site and a globe for front sight.

https://i.imgur.com/bh0LWV2.jpg

[yorketransport]

I think you are over thinking the caliber issue.  Whatever you do, it'll be a big bullet going pretty slow with open sites.  All that limits you far more than anything else.  Get a 50, shoot 3 inch groups at 100 yards, and you can kill elk as far as you can likely shoot well with open sites.

I do tend to overthink things. I thought going ML instead of trying archery would be a better fit just because I'm used to handgun hunting and the range limitations and bullet performance are pretty similar. I'm good to about 75 yards with an iron sighted revolver and probably a bit farther with a good peep sight on a ML.

Is there such a thing and “wildcats” in the muzzy world Yorke?

I’d be a bit disappointed if you grabbed an off the shelf muzzy and took it hunting. 

That's the problem! It's also the reason I was thinking about going with a .52, just to be different. Plus I'm working on having a custom .475 bullet made for the handgun and that way I could use it in the rifle too.

[WSU]

Just build a .53. People have .50, .52 and .54, but nobody has a .53.

[BULLBLASTER]

I think you are over thinking the caliber issue.  Whatever you do, it'll be a big bullet going pretty slow with open sites.  All that limits you far more than anything else.  Get a 50, shoot 3 inch groups at 100 yards, and you can kill elk as far as you can likely shoot well with open sites.

I do tend to overthink things. I thought going ML instead of trying archery would be a better fit just because I'm used to handgun hunting and the range limitations and bullet performance are pretty similar. I'm good to about 75 yards with an iron sighted revolver and probably a bit farther with a good peep sight on a ML.

Is there such a thing and “wildcats” in the muzzy world Yorke?

I’d be a bit disappointed if you grabbed an off the shelf muzzy and took it hunting. 

That's the problem! It's also the reason I was thinking about going with a .52, just to be different. Plus I'm working on having a custom .475 bullet made for the handgun and that way I could use it in the rifle too.

There’s the yorke we all know!

[Damnimissed]

I’ve owned 3 muzzleloaders, a Traditions Vortek, a Knight Ultralite, and most recently I picked up a CVA optima for $100. The Traditions was my least favorite for multiple reasons (one, safety related). The Knight had the best fit and finish by far and shot good. The optima shoots the best and is a lot easier to clean than the Knight. In the Optima, I’m running 100gr of Blackhorn 209 (which I highly recommend), a 290gr Barnes TEZ, and Federal 209 primer. It shoots lights out.
For bullets, Barnes is the way to go, IMO. I’ve also killed elk with 300gr Knight Bloodlines. They are a great bullet as well. I had horrible performance on a bull with 348gr Powerbelt aero tips and was lucky to recover the bull after 3 shots.
Now that we can use Blackhorn 209 powder, there is nothing else I would use in my muskets. It’s way cleaner and has awesome performance.

[JimmyHoffa]

I think the caliber isn't that big of a deal because you can get bridge the gap in bullet caliber and barrel caliber with the sabots.  You could try going big, like .52 or .54 so you can use .510 bullets.  Most of the .54 I see are for trad guns.  If you want to go bigger, a few guys I know use the .68 or .73 trad muzzy.  Guess the .73 allows 12 gauge slugs.  The .68 I think is difficult to find any kind of sabot, but a gadget monkey could probably 3-D print something.
I'm using an older mountaineer now, it had the longest barrel I could find on a modern muzzy at 27".  Most of the trad guns I've had came with barrels a bit longer than that, and the moderns seemed to all end at 26". 

[floatinghat]

I do love the idea of the .52 which would allow me to use .475 bullets. I have a 480 Ruger that I shoot a lot so I have a good selection of .475 bullets to play with, but I also have a healthy supply of .452 bullets sitting around as well. It looks like going with the .52 limits me to once source for sabots but I'm not sure if that's a big issue. Are you experienced ML guys testing out different sabots and tuning a load similar to swapping primers or powders when reloading rifle ammo?

The sabots for the .52 come from a single source and you are limited to .475 and .458.  or you can cast your own conicals.

Yes on the fine tuning when time allows

[MountainDevil54]

never go with an odd ball size like a 52cal.

Stick with a 50cal.

[yorketransport]

never go with an odd ball size like a 52cal.

Stick with a 50cal.

I specialize in the oddest of the odd in all my other guns, that's what drew me to the 52 cal for a muzzle loader.

I do love the idea of the .52 which would allow me to use .475 bullets. I have a 480 Ruger that I shoot a lot so I have a good selection of .475 bullets to play with, but I also have a healthy supply of .452 bullets sitting around as well. It looks like going with the .52 limits me to once source for sabots but I'm not sure if that's a big issue. Are you experienced ML guys testing out different sabots and tuning a load similar to swapping primers or powders when reloading rifle ammo?

The sabots for the .52 come from a single source and you are limited to .475 and .458.  or you can cast your own conicals.

Yes on the fine tuning when time allows

I actually like the idea of being able to use .458 and .475 bullets. Only having once source for sabots doesn't seem like a big issue either. It's just like rifle brass, buy enough to last the life of the barrel and you're good to go. I could pick up a couple hundred each of the .458 and .475 sabots and be good to go for a couple of years or more.

[bornhunter]

I think you are over thinking the caliber issue.  Whatever you do, it'll be a big bullet going pretty slow with open sites.  All that limits you far more than anything else.  Get a 50, shoot 3 inch groups at 100 yards, and you can kill elk as far as you can likely shoot well with open sites.

I do tend to overthink things. I thought going ML instead of trying archery would be a better fit just because I'm used to handgun hunting and the range limitations and bullet performance are pretty similar. I'm good to about 75 yards with an iron sighted revolver and probably a bit farther with a good peep sight on a ML.

Is there such a thing and “wildcats” in the muzzy world Yorke?

I’d be a bit disappointed if you grabbed an off the shelf muzzy and took it hunting. 

That's the problem! It's also the reason I was thinking about going with a .52, just to be different. Plus I'm working on having a custom .475 bullet made for the handgun and that way I could use it in the rifle too.

You havent lived until you sink an arrow into a bull. Not trying to change your mind but maybe go to a bow shop and launch a few sticks just to see how it feels. I do both muzzy and bow and there is no comparison being up close and personal to an elk at full draw and letting it fly. Cant wait for September. Good luck!

[Reidus]

 Build a 45 caliber smokeless muzzleloader and you can use up them .452 bullets. A smokeless will shoot a 300gr bullet at about 2400fps and be wa legal with bh209. With smokeless powders you can shoot up in the 2800fps range. They're extremely accurate!

[Karl Blanchard]

Build a 45 caliber smokeless muzzleloader and you can use up them .452 bullets. A smokeless will shoot a 300gr bullet at about 2400fps and be wa legal with bh209. With smokeless powders you can shoot up in the 2800fps range. They're extremely accurate!

I'm gonna start hunting Utah general every year starting next year.  We need to chat specifics on what I need to build one of them beasts

[yorketransport]

I'm gonna start hunting Utah general every year starting next year.  We need to chat specifics on what I need to build one of them beasts

Do you ever actually work, or do you just hunt all year?

[Jolten]

York what about a vortek magnum 50cal. You can shoot full bore sabotless. I've never went above  250gr bullets with 150gr of pyrodex pellets behind it, but I'm not as brave as you.

[Karl Blanchard]

I'm gonna start hunting Utah general every year starting next year.  We need to chat specifics on what I need to build one of them beasts

Do you ever actually work, or do you just hunt all year?

"work" is a loose term sir 

[Reidus]

Build a 45 caliber smokeless muzzleloader and you can use up them .452 bullets. A smokeless will shoot a 300gr bullet at about 2400fps and be wa legal with bh209. With smokeless powders you can shoot up in the 2800fps range. They're extremely accurate!

I'm gonna start hunting Utah general every year starting next year.  We need to chat specifics on what I need to build one of them beasts

As long as it gets you away from a certain drainage in Idaho   Pretty much a single shot rifle with a scope on it. I've used mine a bit and got a few ideas on what to change on my next one. I'm thinking a remington 700ml action in a game scout would be awesome!

[Karl Blanchard]

Build a 45 caliber smokeless muzzleloader and you can use up them .452 bullets. A smokeless will shoot a 300gr bullet at about 2400fps and be wa legal with bh209. With smokeless powders you can shoot up in the 2800fps range. They're extremely accurate!

I'm gonna start hunting Utah general every year starting next year.  We need to chat specifics on what I need to build one of them beasts

As long as it gets you away from a certain drainage in Idaho   Pretty much a single shot rifle with a scope on it. I've used mine a bit and got a few ideas on what to change on my next one. I'm thinking a remington 700ml action in a game scout would be awesome!

well it wont lol.

[yorketransport]

York what about a vortek magnum 50cal. You can shoot full bore sabotless. I've never went above  250gr bullets with 150gr of pyrodex pellets behind it, but I'm not as brave as you.

I just checked those out and I don't hate that idea!

[Jolten]

York what about a vortek magnum 50cal. You can shoot full bore sabotless. I've never went above  250gr bullets with 150gr of pyrodex pellets behind it, but I'm not as brave as you.

I just checked those out and I don't hate that idea!

I thought that might intrigue you a bit