Conflict Goat draw?

[Stein]

You don't need evidence for wildlife management, you just need a group that can afford to sue.  File a big suit claiming they have faulty and insufficient evidence and demand they start all over again and conduct enormous impact studies, climate studies, archaelogical studies, native people studies, and whatever else you can think of.  Go on the news, run stories about the state and feds slaughtering these animals while they are suffering the effects of climate change.

Then, in a couple years they will either give up or you will lose in which case you start over and file another suit over something slightly different and start all over again.  It's a proven tactic.  Once you do this several times you don't even need to sue anymore, you just threaten.

[Tbar]

You don't need evidence for wildlife management, you just need a group that can afford to sue.  File a big suit claiming they have faulty and insufficient evidence and demand they start all over again and conduct enormous impact studies, climate studies, archaelogical studies, native people studies, and whatever else you can think of.  Go on the news, run stories about the state and feds slaughtering these animals while they are suffering the effects of climate change.

Then, in a couple years they will either give up or you will lose in which case you start over and file another suit over something slightly different and start all over again.  It's a proven tactic.  Once you do this several times you don't even need to sue anymore, you just threaten.

There was more than one EIS, also an extended  comment and review period. Wouldn't you think opposition and litigation would be more effective during scoping?

[Stein]

You don't need evidence for wildlife management, you just need a group that can afford to sue.  File a big suit claiming they have faulty and insufficient evidence and demand they start all over again and conduct enormous impact studies, climate studies, archaelogical studies, native people studies, and whatever else you can think of.  Go on the news, run stories about the state and feds slaughtering these animals while they are suffering the effects of climate change.

Then, in a couple years they will either give up or you will lose in which case you start over and file another suit over something slightly different and start all over again.  It's a proven tactic.  Once you do this several times you don't even need to sue anymore, you just threaten.

There was more than one EIS, also an extended  comment and review period. Wouldn't you think opposition and litigation would be more effective during scoping?

No, let it run it's course and then jump in at the last minute and try to start the clock all over again.  You aren't trying to win, you are just trying to get the other side to give up or delay it until you get it in the right court, have the right governor and/or director.

Look at the grizzlies, there was an agreed upon management objective, tons of studies, and a comprehensive plan were everyone agreed we would give it back to the state when we hit it.  We hit it, went well over it and then they sued saying, "yeah, we agreed about that but now think we should count them differently and reconsider the entire plan."

[eskimo]

In my opinion we need to push forward with the translocation of as many goats as possible from ONP to the fractured populations within the greater Cascade complex.  This should help improve the stagnant gene pools and will reduce the impact on fauna in the ONP.

After that, I'm all for pumping the brakes very hard on any eradication efforts in the ONP. The data supporting the removal of the goats from ONP was extremely dated and specious at best (it was gathered by highly biased flower-worshipers).

The ONP is unquestionably the single best mountain goat incubator we have and has the best genetics in terms of the depth of their genetics.  To just kill them all off is laughably stupid and is nothing more than moronically  short-sighted cost-cutting bureaucratic horse*censored*.  I will fight the eradication efforts tooth and nail even if I have to get every soccer mom and elementary school kid in the state up in arms about it.  The ONP mountain goat population and the fauna they feed on can and should be managed for sustainability, and hunting can and should be used as the primary tool to effectively manage their population base.              Good job Bushcraft

[eskimo]

In my opinion we need to push forward with the translocation of as many goats as possible from ONP to the fractured populations within the greater Cascade complex.  This should help improve the stagnant gene pools and will reduce the impact on fauna in the ONP.

After that, I'm all for pumping the brakes very hard on any eradication efforts in the ONP. The data supporting the removal of the goats from ONP was extremely dated and specious at best (it was gathered by highly biased flower-worshipers).

The ONP is unquestionably the single best mountain goat incubator we have and has the best genetics in terms of the depth of their genetics.  To just kill them all off is laughably stupid and is nothing more than moronically  short-sighted cost-cutting bureaucratic horse*censored*.  I will fight the eradication efforts tooth and nail even if I have to get every soccer mom and elementary school kid in the state up in arms about it.  The ONP mountain goat population and the fauna they feed on can and should be managed for sustainability, and hunting can and should be used as the primary tool to effectively manage their population base.

Good job Bushcraft