Swakane sheep and South Chelan goats.

[WABONEHNTR]

Gov tag and auction tag guys can only hunt in areas that have 2 or more tags. 

[whacker1]

Bone - Thanks for sharing the stats on Montana - Interesting comparison

[wa.hunter]

The really sad part about some of what is going on here is that 2 weeks ago a ram had to be put down that was sick and to be honest just old or at least in my opionion 10+ years being old in most sheep years. the ram scored right at 178+ and guess what there are 2 more there that are probably just as old or will be before someone gets a chance to draw a tag.  Why then can't WDFW have a tag where only one of these 2 rams can be harvested they will both score over 180 and ultimately die of old age.the Swakane unit is a unit which should be hunted in November like some of the other units where by the oldest rams could be found and harvested rather than the younger breeding rams being the one's that are getting shot.  This state has a history of once a unit is closed it is difficult to get it opened up again. The goat units are the best examples out there. Da lets see what really has cause alot of our problems..Hound hunting is eliminated for bear and cougars and with in a few years we have problems all over the state with animal populations or maybe I should say the lack of a population in many areas.
Back to Swakane if any one really cared the fence would have been built several years ago this is not a new problem, and also why don't we just move some of the many ewes that are getting shot in other units to this unit to supplement the losses,why we don't is probably because this is a high risk unit in the first place with the contact with livestock all the houses that are going in isn't going to help either. these sheep are cruising around inside the city limits of Wenatchee face it they are a doomed herd. So why not just give out another permit.

[provider]

I strongly disagree with a Swakane permit season being in November.  That would not be a hunt...  it would be a joke.  The location of those sheep that time of year would create real problems, and very visible to the public.  A recipe for trouble.

The current season structure contributes to makeing this a difficult hunt.  Just look at the effort (number of days per harvest) compared to the other hunt units.  And if the scores are any indication, these are not young rams being killed.

The Hwy 97A Wildlife Fence IS going to be built, and only because a large number of people care deeply about that herd and the other wildlife in that area.  Expect to see construction start soon on the first four miles of fence.

"Doomed?"...   Not if I have anything to do about it. 

[chukarchaser]

years ago the unit only had 40+ sheep and it was open, so the numbers increased. Closing this unit us a joke, it smacks of anti hunting.  its a fact sheep cannot be stockpiled, one domestic sheep in the area and we loose them all just like what has happened in other units including the Quil.  WDFW flips strategies and goals more than any organization i know.

[videoman]

The numbers that the game dept came up with are not true.  I have already drawn my sheep tag so one might ask what the big deal then.  Well the big deal,  there are for sure 3 rams in the swakane unit that will die of old age with in two yrs and the other is that I would love for someone else to have the same experience I did.

To Provider:  If you are so sure the game dept numbers are correct I would love to take you over there and do a count just to show you they are wrong or you can PM me your address and I can send you my survey video uncut.  Then you can count them for yourself.

I strongly agree with putting up the fence asap.

Does anybody have any thing to say about not have a tag in South Chelan with a population 3 yrs ago of a 160?  That is for sure 3 tags over 3 yrs that us hunters have been denied.

I spend hrs of time and money to help protect and preserve wildlife so that we can have a healthy population to hunt and photograph.  I am not out to kill them all just the rights to hunt a health population.  The Swakane Sheep and the South Chelan Goats are health!!!!

[shanevg]

The numbers that the game dept came up with are not true.  I have already drawn my sheep tag so one might ask what the big deal then.  Well the big deal,  there are for sure 3 rams in the swakane unit that will die of old age with in two yrs and the other is that I would love for someone else to have the same experience I did.

To Provider:  If you are so sure the game dept numbers are correct I would love to take you over there and do a count just to show you they are wrong or you can PM me your address and I can send you my survey video uncut.  Then you can count them for yourself.

I strongly agree with putting up the fence asap.

Does anybody have any thing to say about not have a tag in South Chelan with a population 3 yrs ago of a 160?  That is for sure 3 tags over 3 yrs that us hunters have been denied.

I spend hrs of time and money to help protect and preserve wildlife so that we can have a healthy population to hunt and photograph.  I am not out to kill them all just the rights to hunt a health population.  The Swakane Sheep and the South Chelan Goats are health!!!!

I'm just curious, do you send your survey videos to WDFW for them to see?  That seems like exactly the kind of data they need to have. 

[chukarchaser]

I agree the fence has to go up ASAP.  i am also curious where our local FNAWS chapter stands on closing Swakane.    I would guess there silence says they support it.  This is just a waste of another resource by WDFW.

Its also interesting that Chelan county PUD has headcount numbers for lake Chelan goats that would tend to support videomans counts.

[fc2038]

Thanks guys for chiming in. 
Here are some interesting Montana GOAT population estimates and the tags they allocate.
unit 142     population 40    tags 2
unit 150     population 50    tags 2
unit 151     population 40    tags 2
unit 313     populaiton 300   tags 50
unit 314     population 65    tags 14
unit 316     populaiton 90    tags 12
unit 323     population 130   tags 26
unit 329     population 150   tags 25
unit 393     population 80    tags 5

Thanks that is interesting information. I did not know that

[provider]

To Provider:  If you are so sure the game dept numbers are correct I would love to take you over there and do a count just to show you they are wrong or you can PM me your address and I can send you my survey video uncut.  Then you can count them for yourself.

Hi Video,  I didn't say the WDFW herd population estimates (numbers) were correct...  I said they were conservative, and that is the correct way to approach it.  Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing your video.  Just do me a favor and edit out the part of me trying to untangle the nets please!

i am also curious where our local FNAWS chapter stands on closing Swakane.    I would guess there silence says they support it.

They probably havn't been as silent as you think.

[gottatree]

WDFW, has there head up something. What animal in our state have they actualy managed with success.

[DOUBLELUNG]

I agree, that was one of my first huge concerns about that project when I saw it.  Doublelung might know. 

From Swakane to Spencer Cyn, there are at least 7 drainages with at least one source of permanent water west of the highway, verified on foot in August during a drought year.  A fence won't limit availability of water for the sheep.

[DOUBLELUNG]

A couple of weeks ago some guys from fwans and sci participated in a collaring project in the swakane unit.  The bio's over there think that there is only like 60 something sheep in the whole swakane unit that is why they are not issuing a tag this yr.  Between 3 of us in 4hrs, we spotted over 80 and 26 of them rams. 

Also about 3 yrs ago I participated in a goat survey in the south chelan unit we spotted 160 goats by helicopter and still no tag.  Why? 

I think are game dept is being ran by non-hunters.

As a whole we need to help the game dept in surveys so they know what is there.  Video, Gps, and document what you see and write letters  to help.  The only reason those animals are there is because of hunters dollars. 

The local bios, being conservative, can only verify 70-75 sheep.  They suspect there are more,which was the main point of collaring the sheep - better counts.

According to the district wildlife biologist for Chelan County from 3 years ago, he does not recall any aerial survey associated with Cliff Rice's goat sightability survey which observed more than 60 goats in the area of Chelan County south of Lake Chelan. 

[chukarchaser]

Does anyone know the outcome of the tag for 09.  Why the sudden rush to close this unit given the high numbers of sheep?

[videoman]

Now that I know who the Provider is he could probably answer the question better than anyone.