Do you personally get better groups with faster bullets?

[Oh Mah]

I'm doing some research in my loading data and came to this.

Poll :  Do you get better groups when your at close to the store bought fps of a round or are you getting tighter groups going faster?By faster i mean 200 fps and up and of the same weight.If yes please explain your set up. Thanks.

[jrebel]

I can't answer this question because of all the variables.  What I will say.....I find that to much speed is a bad thing.  Amost all of my rifles shoot better with less than max loads.  When I start reaching max loads, I find accuracy goes out the window.  I am an accuracy guy and could care less about speed.....but I also shoot heavy bullets for caliber.

[wadu1]

I can't answer this question because of all the variables.  What I will say.....I find that to much speed is a bad thing.  Amost all of my rifles shoot better with less than max loads.  When I start reaching max loads, I find accuracy goes out the window.  I am an accuracy guy and could care less about speed.....but I also shoot heavy bullets for caliber.

I'm with jrebel 100% even with my 22-250 slower speeds are best 38gr H380 and any bullet. 

[hogslayer]

Slower nodes are usually wider and more forgiving. Having a larger cartridge run at lower speed is easier than a smaller cartridge running near max.  BUT, I do have some rifles that like it hot.  Just have to stay on top of them more with throat wear and shooting form 

[92xj]

During my loading and testing with hammer bullets, the more powder and pressure I crammed in the case the better the groups and greater the speed.

[Oh Mah]

Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?

[jasnt]

I can’t answer this as I haven’t shot a factory round in 6 years.  That said I always choose the highest node but that’s mainly because I’m trying to shoot as far as my setup can allow.

[Oh Mah]

You are def. the exception jasnt. No doubt.

Just to keep in line with others jasnt how much faster are you throwing those heavies?

[92xj]

Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?

I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested.  Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s.  I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps.  I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me.  The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters.  I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened.  I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure

[Oh Mah]

When this thread dies down i plan on sharing what it is i came up with,Which may or may not mean anything since every tool is different.

[jasnt]

You are def. the exception jasnt. No doubt.

Just to keep in line with others jasnt how much faster are you throwing those heavies?

which ones? 243 with 115’s or 338 and 300’s
Should say 3055 with 115’s, 2715 with 300’s

[jrebel]

Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?

I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested.  Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s.  I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps.  I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me.  The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters.  I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened.  I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure

Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X?  I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag.  It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel. 

I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster??? 

[JimmyHoffa]

Remington accelerators for the .30-06 were pretty darn fast--over 4000 fps with 55 grain.  Groups weren't that great.

[Oh Mah]

I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?

[jrebel]

I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?

I have some 214's adn 227 (I think) that didn't shoot well in my rifle if you want to give them a try.  They are stupid expensive so I am kind of glad they did not work.     

[jasnt]

I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?

I have some 214's adn 227 (I think) that didn't shoot well in my rifle if you want to give them a try.  They are stupid expensive so I am kind of glad they did not work.     

if you think hammers are expensive don’t ever look at Warner flatline’s. 

[92xj]

Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?

I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested.  Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s.  I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps.  I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me.  The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters.  I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened.  I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure

Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X?  I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag.  It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel. 

I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???

Are you running a 10 twist in your 300wm?

[92xj]

I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?

I have some 214's adn 227 (I think) that didn't shoot well in my rifle if you want to give them a try.  They are stupid expensive so I am kind of glad they did not work.   

Were these tested in your 300wm?

[CLARKTAR]

I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?

I have some 214's adn 227 (I think) that didn't shoot well in my rifle if you want to give them a try.  They are stupid expensive so I am kind of glad they did not work.   

If no one else takes you up I would be interested in testing these. I just finished a build and want to see what I can do with heavier 30cals in a 1:9 twist 30-06.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[jrebel]

Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?

I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested.  Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s.  I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps.  I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me.  The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters.  I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened.  I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure

Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X?  I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag.  It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel. 

I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???

Are you running a 10 twist in your 300wm?

Yes, 1:10 with a 26" barrel

I'm looking at them and they look pretty darn good.1.557 long.Anyone use them on big game that can let us know how they worked other than tag filled?

I have some 214's adn 227 (I think) that didn't shoot well in my rifle if you want to give them a try.  They are stupid expensive so I am kind of glad they did not work.   

Were these tested in your 300wm?

Yes same gun that is shooting the 212 ELD X. 

[92xj]

Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?

I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested.  Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s.  I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps.  I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me.  The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters.  I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened.  I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure

Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X?  I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag.  It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel. 

I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???

Are you running a 10 twist in your 300wm?

Yes, 1:10 with a 26" barrel

thats what I was thinking.  Steve puts up the recommended minimum twist rates on each options available on the website.  I thought I would try and cheat the system a little and step up in grain like you did, it didn't work.  I ended up talking to steve and decided that if I actually listen to him and follow his recommendations, the bullets actually work really well.  You should give the 196gr hammers a try if you want long range stuff.  If you want something to shoot under 500 yards, give the 199 sledge hammers a try.  Both of those are shooting amazing for me.  I just did a 400 yard group with the 196s and the group measured 2.1", good enough for me and my setup.

[jrebel]

Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?

I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested.  Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s.  I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps.  I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me.  The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters.  I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened.  I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure

Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X?  I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag.  It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel. 

I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???

Are you running a 10 twist in your 300wm?

Yes, 1:10 with a 26" barrel

thats what I was thinking.  Steve puts up the recommended minimum twist rates on each options available on the website.  I thought I would try and cheat the system a little and step up in grain like you did, it didn't work.  I ended up talking to steve and decided that if I actually listen to him and follow his recommendations, the bullets actually work really well.  You should give the 196gr hammers a try if you want long range stuff.  If you want something to shoot under 500 yards, give the 199 sledge hammers a try.  Both of those are shooting amazing for me.  I just did a 400 yard group with the 196s and the group measured 2.1", good enough for me and my setup.

Yeah, I have no doubt if I use the right bullet they will shoot.  They appear very well made and get great reviews.  I was trying to cheat the system a bit to push heavies......which is really kind of dumb.  A deer could care less if they are shot with a 196 or 214 grainer....

[Hilltop123]

Are these the same bullets that a member posted about that are really long bullets?
What is the standard store bought fps?
How much faster 92xj AND WHAT GRAIN?

I have a thread on here about pressure signs in my 300 that goes into a lot of detail about what I tested.  Steve at hammer just came out with a 196gr specifically for the 10 twist 300s.  I am running those with 75gr of h1000 at 3015 fps.  I tested the 199 hammer hunters and they would not stabilize for me.  The 199sledge hunters shot lights out as well as the 196gr hunters.  I started low around 72grs and 2800fps, every grain I increased the groups got better and the primers stated to flattened.  I got to 75gr with great groups and plenty of speed without getting to a point I was worried about too much pressure

Are the hammer bullets that much faster than say an ELD-X?  I am shooting 212 ELD-X out of my 300 win mag.  It is being pushed by 76.5 grains of H100 and I am getting 2880 fps, 26" barrel. 

I tried the 214 Hammers and couldn't get them to group.....wonder If I needed to push them faster???

Are you running a 10 twist in your 300wm?

Yes, 1:10 with a 26" barrel

thats what I was thinking.  Steve puts up the recommended minimum twist rates on each options available on the website.  I thought I would try and cheat the system a little and step up in grain like you did, it didn't work.  I ended up talking to steve and decided that if I actually listen to him and follow his recommendations, the bullets actually work really well.  You should give the 196gr hammers a try if you want long range stuff.  If you want something to shoot under 500 yards, give the 199 sledge hammers a try.  Both of those are shooting amazing for me.  I just did a 400 yard group with the 196s and the group measured 2.1", good enough for me and my setup.

Yeah, I have no doubt if I use the right bullet they will shoot.  They appear very well made and get great reviews.  I was trying to cheat the system a bit to push heavies......which is really kind of dumb.  A deer could care less if they are shot with a 196 or 214 grainer....

Your right, the deer won't notice the difference. But half the fun of handloading is experimenting.
(EDIT)
Half the fun, all the frustration.

[yorketransport]

It's widely accepted that different chamberings have different "sweet spots". That's why you can get away with the proven data for chamberings like the 308 Win, 6mm BR, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor and others. I know that I can take just about any 6mm BR Norma chambered gun and load up 30.3gr Varget with a 105-107gr bullet seated about .015 off the lands and it will shoot well. This load will likely get me right around 2850-2950 fps in most 26-28" barrels and shoot extremely well. If an ammo company knows that they can load the 6mm BR with a 105gr bullet to 2900 fps and get good results in most guns then that's what they'll do.

The Creedmoor is a great example too. I can't remember what it is, but there's a generic load for the Creedmoor that uses around 43.5gr of H4350 with a 140gr bullet and it just seems to work in every gun. There are plenty of folks right now who're cranking up the velocity with good results using a different powder around 150-200 fps faster than the factory loaded 2850 fps or so average. The problem with those top end handloads is that they're VERY hard on barrels. I'd rather move to a larger case to hit the upper velocity node at lower pressure than take a small case and red line it to hit the same velocity.

Since I shoot a lot of short barrels, I typically end up shooting a lower velocity node than similar factory ammo. The other approach that I take with the shorter barrels is to move to a larger case that I know will let me hit that sweet spot for accuracy. It's well know that the 300gr OTM shoots well between 2850 and 2950 fps and then you hit another node right around 3200 fps. I can hit the 3200fps node easily (I'm at 3180 fps) in the 30" 338/408 Improved with pretty modest loads and my Bertram brass is on it's 10 firing and going strong. I've hit 3350 fps in the 30" barrel and it still shot alright but it wasn't anything spectacular. In the 20" barreled 338/408 Improved I shoot the 300gr OTM at 2875 fps with excellent results using the same 140gr charge of H50BMG that I use in the 30" rifle. Just like the rifle though I can crank up the velocity in the 20" barrel and they shoot closer to .75 MOA instead of sub .5 MOA. I imagine that if I could get the 20" barrel up to 3150-3250 fps that it would start grouping well again.

[Oh Mah]

anyone have a hornady volume 10 load book?

[hughjorgan]

anyone have a hornady volume 10 load book?

I do...

[Oh Mah]

Ok,I was looking at the load data on page 581 for the max load h 1000 76.2 grains 2800 fps. then the 212 eldx on page 583 max load is 77.6 grain.

Why do they consider a heavier bullet with more powder safer than a lighter bullet with same powder and charge?

[yorketransport]

Ok,I was looking at the load data on page 581 for the max load h 1000 76.2 grains 2800 fps. then the 212 eldx on page 583 max load is 77.6 grain.

Why do they consider a heavier bullet with more powder safer than a lighter bullet with same powder and charge?

The bearing surface is probably different on the two bullets.

[Oh Mah]

  ok.

now 10 grain lighter bullet 190 grain interlock still bt safe at 78 grains h1000 but max for 200 grain bullet is 76.2?