Will you be done buying semi-auto rifles on July 1st?

[carpsniperg2]

I posted a link with the new transfer paperwork. It answers a lot of questions

[Yondering]

I didnt realize the HIPPA problem was also pistols.

I didn't either until a few weeks ago. I think a lot of people don't.

I posted a link with the new transfer paperwork. It answers a lot of questions

Yup, from your link - section C, question 4.
Here it is again for those who missed it. This is a big deal guys. https://www.dol.wa.gov/forms/652001a.pdf

[konradcountry]

You guys are still missing the point. It’s NOT sold as a rifle or a pistol. Unless you buy a complete lower. If it is stripped it is sold as “other”. It is not a pistol. It is not a rifle. How you built it decides.

No they aren't missing the point because some shops actually require the purchaser to choose and then it is sold as a rifle or pistol.

What people should do in such cases is state that they plan on putting it in the safe and would like it transferred as other.

[konradcountry]

I was told no signing over medical rights is required for pistol purchases ? By a sporting systems employee.

No it's in the text of 1639.

You're giving the state permission to look at your medical records annually. Which records exactly? 1639 doesn't specify which means they can do whatever they want.

There is also no criteria for what would be a violation. So you could go see a counselor for depression and the state could decide that you aren't fit to own a handgun or semi-auto rifle.

1639 is some of the worst anti-gun legislation this country as seen. It's a backdoor registry and gives the state unlimited access to your medical records. However it was sold to voters as just additional requirements for storing guns and buying AR type rifles.

[Yondering]

You guys are still missing the point. It’s NOT sold as a rifle or a pistol. Unless you buy a complete lower. If it is stripped it is sold as “other”. It is not a pistol. It is not a rifle. How you built it decides.

No they aren't missing the point because some shops actually require the purchaser to choose and then it is sold as a rifle or pistol.

What people should do in such cases is state that they plan on putting it in the safe and would like it transferred as other.

I think the point is those shops are not following the law and they're doing it incorrectly. You shouldn't have to tell them anything about your intentions with it; a lower receiver is neither a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, and should not be transferred as any of those.

[SGTDuffman]

It is not on the shop to decide. It is “other” period. There are so many different kinds of uppers made to attach to an AR lower, it could be a pistol, a rifle, a shotgun, a bolt action, or all of the above. As long as you don’t make illegal combination of parts like an SBR or SBS, you can turn an AR lower into anything you want, with the same lower, just by changing uppers. That’s why they’re the best selling guns in America.

[konradcountry]

You guys are still missing the point. It’s NOT sold as a rifle or a pistol. Unless you buy a complete lower. If it is stripped it is sold as “other”. It is not a pistol. It is not a rifle. How you built it decides.

No they aren't missing the point because some shops actually require the purchaser to choose and then it is sold as a rifle or pistol.

What people should do in such cases is state that they plan on putting it in the safe and would like it transferred as other.

I think the point is those shops are not following the law and they're doing it incorrectly. You shouldn't have to tell them anything about your intentions with it; a lower receiver is neither a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, and should not be transferred as any of those.

I would bet it is actually legal for them to ask and then transfer as a rifle or pistol. I'm not saying it is right or necessary but my guess is that it is legal and they do it for liability reasons.

[SGTDuffman]

It is not. It’s not a rifle or a pistol. It’s other. It’s a part that can become either in a matter of seconds by swapping uppers. It can become a shotgun or a bolt action rifle too, or all of the above. Pop the pins, swap the upper, and all of the sudden it’s no longer a rifle, or a pistol. If your dealer is selling them as something else, your dealer doesn’t know what they’re doing. That’s not a liability they should be taking. What if you change your mind? They gonna come over and watch you make it to ensure what you make is a pistol or not? If they’re marking it as rifle or pistol on the form, they’re filling out the paperwork incorrectly. Page 5 of the ATF Form 4473, Part B, Question 16, tells you how to fill it out. Frames and receivers = other.

You guys are still missing the point. It’s NOT sold as a rifle or a pistol. Unless you buy a complete lower. If it is stripped it is sold as “other”. It is not a pistol. It is not a rifle. How you built it decides.

No they aren't missing the point because some shops actually require the purchaser to choose and then it is sold as a rifle or pistol.

What people should do in such cases is state that they plan on putting it in the safe and would like it transferred as other.

I think the point is those shops are not following the law and they're doing it incorrectly. You shouldn't have to tell them anything about your intentions with it; a lower receiver is neither a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, and should not be transferred as any of those.

I would bet it is actually legal for them to ask and then transfer as a rifle or pistol. I'm not saying it is right or necessary but my guess is that it is legal and they do it for liability reasons.

[konradcountry]

It is not. It’s not a rifle or a pistol. It’s other. It’s a part that can become either in a matter of seconds by swapping uppers. It can become a shotgun or a bolt action rifle too, or all of the above. Pop the pins, swap the upper, and all of the sudden it’s no longer a rifle, or a pistol. If your dealer is selling them as something else, your dealer doesn’t know what they’re doing. That’s not a liability they should be taking. What if you change your mind? They gonna come over and watch you make it to ensure what you make is a pistol or not? If they’re marking it as rifle or pistol on the form, they’re filling out the paperwork incorrectly. Page 5 of the ATF Form 4473, Part B, Question 16, tells you how to fill it out. Frames and receivers = other.

Yes we get how it is normally transferred and I never said my dealer does this. The question is why some dealers do this and whether or not it is legal.

Just because an atf form states it should be "other" does not mean it is illegal for them to do this.

This happens in other states so it is most likely legal even if it shouldn't be. From what I have it is standard procedure in California to mark it is a rifle.

[Windwalker]

It is not on the shop to decide. It is “other” period. There are so many different kinds of uppers made to attach to an AR lower, it could be a pistol, a rifle, a shotgun, a bolt action, or all of the above. As long as you don’t make illegal combination of parts like an SBR or SBS, you can turn an AR lower into anything you want, with the same lower, just by changing uppers. That’s why they’re the best selling guns in America.

Picked up 2 more “others” yesterday.
My understanding is they will not be affected but I’m a sucker for excuses to buy more.
Imagine builder workshops are going to become very popular.

[SGTDuffman]

It’s a violation of 27 CFR 478.21 (a)-(b), which is the third most commonly cited violation during audits according to the ATF.

[konradcountry]

It’s a violation of 27 CFR 478.21 (a)-(b), which is the third most commonly cited violation during audits according to the ATF.

Well I'm not convinced it counts as incorrectly filling out a form.

I just read that California shops normally sell them as rifle and not other. So I find it hard to believe that the entire state is breaking the law.

[SGTDuffman]

I wouldn’t use California as a guide for anything firearms related. And that could be a state law for California. As hard as our legislators are trying, this isn’t California yet. I would follow the pertinent ATF paperwork, ATF guidance, and Federal law.

https://www.atf.gov/file/60686/download

[Windwalker]

With the realization this is very fluid with misinformation/interpretation debates.
It would be handy to have a summary and any clarification.
Feel free to correct or edit and see if we can cobble together a reasonable understanding.
What is correct or needs edited?
 

1) Effective January 1, 2019 Purchasers of All semi-auto rifles will be required to at least 21yrs.
Unchanged- 21yrs old to purchase a frame or receiver
Unchanged- 21yrs old to purchase ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
Unchanged- 18 or older for other ammo.

2) All semi-auto rifles (and handguns by default) fall under the new 'enhanced' background check/waiting period purview of I-1639 & require a 10 business day wait.
CCP will no longer qualify for an instant check after July 1.   
 
3) Will waive their HIPPA rights when buying semi-auto rifles/handguns.
4) Buying ANY semi-automatic rifle requires proof of training for I-1639 compliance. And no exemptions for military, law enforcement or instructors.
(question how non-resident active duty military stationed in WA State- are affected? 18 year olds can fight for this country but not buy lesser guns than they fight with?)
 
5) Some polymer lowers will be outlawed.
6) Aluminum lowers are legal and background checks unchanged. * Note: DOL (at this time) has no provision to process an 'OTHER' transaction.
7) Aluminum 80% lowers can be bought by anyone, any age.
#8) It is illegal to buy handguns, receivers and now semi-auto rifles out of state. They must be sent to an IN-state FFL and processed per WA state law.
9) Non-residents see #8
10) The NRA/SAF are all over this- the lawsuit has survived the motion to dismiss. Now it's being scheduled for hearings. There are 2 injunction requests within the existing lawsuit and another emergency relief order. Keep in mind It's taken six months just to get to this point so whatever happens it will not be soon. Sporting Systems Youtube and Facebook page posts weekly updates. They are the lead plaintiff suing the state.


   

[carpsniperg2]

The need to be 21 has already been in effect prior to the 1st.