What snowmobile to look for?

[Tracker0721]

For my trapping and coyote hunting I’d really like to get a sled to take into some of the great areas I find in the summer/fall. Most of the riding would be forest circus roads and old logging roads but none get plowed so I’m wanting a sled that can haul some gear, maybe tow the little trailers, can break trail, fan cooled(right?) and would be nice if I could fit it into the back of my truck. The early 2000s ski doo tundra looks perfect!

My price range is low so I’m looking used and older but I’m just looking for suggestions on what I should be looking to get.

[KFhunter]

those older utility sleds are hard to come by in decent shape, so I use my Arctic Cat M8 and make do but it's not optimal.   Tons of power, but not much tow.  Its still fun though 


one thing I've found is that in a good snow year on these FS roads can require a lot of floatation breaking trail,  I've even gotten my mountain sled stuck on FS roads that has no base so you sink especially when manuvering around downed brush, logs and junk in your way, you can't always pin the throttle to get out. 


Its a good idea to get a fan cooled sled, that would open up more riding opportunity where a liquid cooled sled could overheat because lack of snow and iced up roads.   I do run scratchers, but on super skinny snow there isn't much to scratch up to cool it. 

might be worth a look, got time to fix it up before next season.
https://lewiston.craigslist.org/snw/d/juliaetta-ski-doo-snowmobile/6913675557.html

If it were me I'd cut the back half of the seat off, make it almost a shorty then you'd have room for a lot more stuff on the rear rack.  I'd also do a complete tear down and rebuild, new windscreen, and I'd put in a scabbard through the hood into the engine bay to keep your rifle sorta warm. 

[KFhunter]

another thing, riding by yourself can be a bit sketchy.   I got 20 miles back in snow that went almost to my nipples when I got off the sled and broke down back there.  Now what?

can't walk out!


luckly I was able to cobble up a fix and rode out with a messed up steering shaft, but got me to thinking...


now I use a garmin inreach GPS thing and do a better job communicating where I'm riding, good thing is there's usually only one set of snowmobile tracks leaving the pickup and it goes right to me 

[Norman89]

I picked up a 1989 articat 440 fan to try out for trapping I paid 75$ for it not running brought it home and found the kill switch shorted out had it running in 10 minutes. New carb is on the way and new choke cable and I plan to shorten the seat as well and make room for a rack and try some Martin trapping this year

[bearpaw]

I used to have mostly Polaris and hardly ever made it through a winter without an engine going out. We started buying 4 stroke skidoo tundras and have one 2 stroke etec tundra extreme and haven't had any problems with them, collectively we've put about 12,000 miles on them in the last three winters. We also have an old carborated skidoo with well over 10k miles, rebuilt the motor around 10k before it blew up just to feel safe when we have to use it.

I'm 10 to 30 miles from my truck pretty often in the early am in very remote country alone, so I don't need a breakdown, skidoos utility sleds are very reliable machines. We also have a half dozen Yamaha Phazer newer 4 stroke and older 2 stroke, they are good machines but not quite as reliable nor will they follow the skidoos. The skidoos even pulling a heavy dog sled will go further and not get stuck.

Might get a skidoo expedition next, I've been investigating them and like what I see, very similar to the tundra but a little better trail sled due to a wider ski stance. If you look on the trapper forums a lot of guys are using expeditions up north rather than tundras now.

There are some used 550 expeditions for sale in Utah, they were fleet sleds, pricing isn't too bad. The 550 is jetted and carborated, so you would probably need to have new jets put in for WA elevations, it's easy and cheap to do. https://classifieds.ksl.com/search/?keyword=expedition&category%5B%5D=Winter+Sports&subCategory%5B%5D=Snowmobiles+Used&zip=&miles=25&priceFrom=&priceTo=&city=&state=&sort=

Sometimes you can find a good deal on a new last year model machine off snowmobile trader or other online classifieds. I can usually save $500 to $1000 doing that. My extreme was on sale late in the season for $3000 off. There was a similar deal in Woodinville this spring but I was about an hour too late calling, someone beat me to it.

[bearpaw]

If you watch for those 4 stroke phazers sometimes they are pretty cheap and low mileage, we have added trailer hitches to two of ours and they pull sleds fine at slow to medium speeds. I've also run them on very bare ground in warm weather to the point that we ruined skis, they have a good radiator for cooling. You should be able to find one for $2000 to $2500, hold out for one with under 2k miles and it will last a long time. Several of ours have 4k to 5k miles, we did have a couple wiring issues that we had to take to get repaired, that's why I say they aren't quite as reliable as skidoo utility sleds.

[KFhunter]

phazers have narrow tracks, like a chainsaw, they cut right through and high center


good little thumpers though, too bad Yamaha didn't make a wide track phazer for backcountry utility sleds.

[Dadofive]

Skidoo Tundra is the way to go. Super light and reliable. Super slow compared to a Summit 1000 but will go anywhere and it's light enough to pull out of just about any hole you might fall in. If it's for trapping, you'll have snowshoes with you anyway for checking your lines. Just imagine a Tundra is like a motorized set of snowshoes. Utilitarian without many bells and whistles.

[Tracker0721]

Yeah the tundra and scandic were what I was seeing recommended. I’ll need to call that guy KFhunter! Doesn’t look bad. But those are awesome deals being offered in Utah! 2100 for an expedition seems like a great deal! Saw a guy with a 2002(?) tundra trapper edition on YouTube, looked sweet!

[Machias]

I'm going to try and get a new Skandic before this winter, hopefully the last one I'll ever need.

[bearpaw]

Which track width are you thinking Fred?

[Machias]

For my trapping and coyote hunting I’d really like to get a sled to take into some of the great areas I find in the summer/fall. Most of the riding would be forest circus roads and old logging roads but none get plowed so I’m wanting a sled that can haul some gear, maybe tow the little trailers, can break trail, fan cooled(right?) and would be nice if I could fit it into the back of my truck. The early 2000s ski doo tundra looks perfect!

My price range is low so I’m looking used and older but I’m just looking for suggestions on what I should be looking to get.

https://lewiston.craigslist.org/snw/d/grangeville-skidoo-tundra/6910904075.html

[Machias]

Which track width are you thinking Fred?

I'll go with the WT

Which engine do you all recommend:
ROTAX 550F
ROTAX 600 H.O. E-TEC
ROTAX 600 ACE

[KFhunter]

The 550f would be lighter weight and good for breaking in trail that hasnt ever been ran on yet, cutting limbs and trees out the way and getting stuck a lot.  I'd get that if I were always cutting in new trail, which you wouldnt be since you should have established line going by the time deep snows start.

600 ace is a great engine. I'd get that if I had a long trapline that you run every few days or so, economic on fuel and reliable. Quieter that a fan engine and just nice all around. Your trapline wull have a base from previous runs so just new snows to worry about, but where you live those fresh snows can be deep. The ace engine is what most the AK trappers use.

600 ho etec more money, more power, slightly more noise, more exhaust stink, more fuel burn,  makes your clothing smell like exhaust oil but a nice engine too. You'd like it on fresh deep snow but otherwise you probably dont need the extra power all the time. I have a 600 etec ho in a summit xp and have clutch issue with broken rollers, I put in the newer hard ones but still getting a hard engagement when I prefer softer starts. Love my arctic cat clutch on the m8 its butter smooth...i do my own clutch work and got all the special tools. Skidoo clutches over complicate things.


IMO the 600 ace would top my list.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[bearpaw]

For my trapping and coyote hunting I’d really like to get a sled to take into some of the great areas I find in the summer/fall. Most of the riding would be forest circus roads and old logging roads but none get plowed so I’m wanting a sled that can haul some gear, maybe tow the little trailers, can break trail, fan cooled(right?) and would be nice if I could fit it into the back of my truck. The early 2000s ski doo tundra looks perfect!

My price range is low so I’m looking used and older but I’m just looking for suggestions on what I should be looking to get.

https://lewiston.craigslist.org/snw/d/grangeville-skidoo-tundra/6910904075.html

That looks identical to the old tundra my son has, at about 10k miles we overhauled the engine just to keep it reliable.

Which track width are you thinking Fred?

I'll go with the WT

Which engine do you all recommend:
ROTAX 550F
ROTAX 600 H.O. E-TEC
ROTAX 600 ACE

If you want to play some of the time running fast the 600 etec is awesome, I've got about 4k miles on my tundra exteme with that engine, uses hardly any oil, don't smoke, gets almost twice the fuel mileage as the carborated 2 strokes, I had them turn down the adjustable clutch so it engages at low rpm, I can drive along at slow walking speed and it still gets up over 60 mph in about 3 seconds. Love that sled.

If you want a very quiet running and long lasting engine, and don't need to play hard, the 600 Ace is awesome. You can see a lot of game riding one that you wouldn't see on any other snowmobile. Gets excellent fuel mileage, goes further in deep snow because it doesn't have the torque that causes spinouts like more powerful engines, yet has enough power to pull a sled in deep snow just fine. Doen't need oil in the fuel, and I've read about trappers up north putting over 15k on an engine. The only thing that I notice, there is a lag when you push the throttle before the engine kicks in, my son is used to that, but I'm used to the quick power on the 600 etec.

The 550 is going to be just as powerful as the 600 ace and maybe a little more powerful, but not as powerful as the 600 etec. It needs oil in the fuel, don't get as good of mileage, and won't last as long as the other two engines, but if you plan on getting another new sled after 4k or 5k it might be the way to go, it's one of the better 2 stroke carborated engines out there.

I think you can get the 900 ace in that machine too, will cost a little more but I've heard mostly good things and that engine would be quiet and have a ton of pulling power.

[Machias]

Sounds like the 600 ace is exactly what I want/need!  Thanks guys!!

[idaho guy]

Sounds like the 600 ace is exactly what I want/need!  Thanks guys!!

900 razr with tracks is what you need  I am over the snowmobile with a sled for hounds and trapping unless I want to check something really fast then I borrow my buddies sled!

[Tracker0721]

My dad just got a new RZR and has his older one sitting under blankets... maybe I should cut him a deal then haha. Except I’ve seen the tracks on those things. Sounds like it’s revving out and gonna blow just to get to 10-15mph. I’m waiting to hear back on the skandic but that tundra sure looks good too, price is a wee bit high. Still haven’t proven my need of a sled yet haha

[KFhunter]

I wouldn't put a Polaris anything on tracks honestly, if its going to be a tracked vehicle its going to be a Yamaha.

[idaho guy]

I wouldn't put a Polaris anything on tracks honestly, if its going to be a tracked vehicle its going to be a Yamaha.

I used to think the same but a little fyi just from my recent experience only- 
I had a Yamaha side by side with tracks and drug it out of the woods 3 or 4 times one winter.I started with the yamaha because I felt like you about it anyways bought the razr 3-4 years ago and haven't had to yet! Just replaced belt last year for first time found out I was pushing that when I got a look at it  I probably average 2-3 full days per week on the machine with tracks from late November till end of march or when the snow runs out.   

[idaho guy]

My dad just got a new RZR and has his older one sitting under blankets... maybe I should cut him a deal then haha. Except I’ve seen the tracks on those things. Sounds like it’s revving out and gonna blow just to get to 10-15mph. I’m waiting to hear back on the skandic but that tundra sure looks good too, price is a wee bit high. Still haven’t proven my need of a sled yet haha

   

I can go faster than that but you do need a buddie with a snowmobile to borrow if you want to do a really fast check 

[Machias]

For a very long time I was going to get tracks for my Kodiak.  Then more and more hound guys and trappers on several FaceBook pages were selling their tracks and going back to snowmobiles.  Lots of them said after using both for a while they were going back, go further quicker and a lot less gas. So I started to reconsider.  I think I'd like to try a sled designed for what I want to do instead of using a sled that is not designed to trap or haul dogs.

[KFhunter]

For a very long time I was going to get tracks for my Kodiak.  Then more and more hound guys and trappers on several FaceBook pages were selling their tracks and going back to snowmobiles.  Lots of them said after using both for a while they were going back, go further quicker and a lot less gas. So I started to reconsider.  I think I'd like to try a sled designed for what I want to do instead of using a sled that is not designed to trap or haul dogs.

Absolutely.  I too thought about tracks for my grizz but I'd only use them for a short time during early spring break up where you're running from mud to grass to snow back to grass back to mud back to snow again.

early winter I can get a lot done on my ATV w/o tracks or I switch to a snowmobile.   Fan cooled sleds can stretch the snowmobile time longer due to engine cooling, lots of idler wheels on the rails help extend hifax life too. 

[idaho guy]

For a very long time I was going to get tracks for my Kodiak.  Then more and more hound guys and trappers on several FaceBook pages were selling their tracks and going back to snowmobiles.  Lots of them said after using both for a while they were going back, go further quicker and a lot less gas. So I started to reconsider.  I think I'd like to try a sled designed for what I want to do instead of using a sled that is not designed to trap or haul dogs.

     

Speed is the only thing I miss about the sled when you really need to cover some ground. Gas hasn't been that bad for me but a lot of guys howl about the gas guzzling on the tracked 4-wheelers. I still kept 1 sled but still like to use my buddies its a lot nicer.  I get way off the road on some bootleg trails and if I tipped the dog sled over one more time I would have either shot myself or the dogs  I also don't miss unhooking and pulling the dog sled around every time I wanted to turn around on a narrow trail. Bringing someone a long on cat hunts has been a lot nicer with the side by side too.  If I was only trapping I would probably consider going back to the sled. Hauling dogs I will NEVER go back!! getting lazy I guess. But I have also never owned a nice sled designed for hound dogging or trapping either 

[KFhunter]

I wonder if a guy had double ended skis on a hound trailer (or any trailer for snowmobiles) and a tongue that flipped over, so you could tow from either end.   

Stop, unhook trailer, toss tongue to the other side, go turn around your sled, drive past your trailer, pull trailer to your sled hitch or back sled up, take off back the way you came. 


I know wet or crunchy snow its hard to turn them skis if you had to drag the trailer around to aim it back the way you just came. 


I use a toboggan, but I don't have any need to have a trailer on suspension for dogs.  The toboggan is easy to spin around.

[Tracker0721]

Well. I think I’ve made my mind up. See if I’m making a 4 hour journey to get a sled this weekend!

[idaho guy]

I wonder if a guy had double ended skis on a hound trailer (or any trailer for snowmobiles) and a tongue that flipped over, so you could tow from either end.   

Stop, unhook trailer, toss tongue to the other side, go turn around your sled, drive past your trailer, pull trailer to your sled hitch or back sled up, take off back the way you came. 


I know wet or crunchy snow its hard to turn them skis if you had to drag the trailer around to aim it back the way you just came. 


I use a toboggan, but I don't have any need to have a trailer on suspension for dogs.  The toboggan is easy to spin around.

   

Probably a good idea I have seen everything and tried a lot but not that. I like just putting my razr in reverse with the dogs in the box and unhooking and re hooking nothing! I turn around without leaving my seat or putting down my coffee lol

[idaho guy]

Maybe I will get really soft and put in a heater this year maybe even a radio!

[KFhunter]

Well. I think I’ve made my mind up. See if I’m making a 4 hour journey to get a sled this weekend!

heck ya

let's pop the hood!
key off, turn primary clutch by hand, do you feel good compression on each piston compression stroke? does it turn too easy? you should feel good compression pops as you turn it
wobble the primary clutch feel for crank bearings? is it solid? is it wobbling?
wobble secondary clutch by hand, feel for bearing wiggle, hows those jackshaft bearings?
pull sparkplugs, are they white? black? brown? set them aside for now
look down plug holes with a light, pistons got dents on top, divets or look scored? missing pieces around the rings?
rotate primary clutch while looking down sparkplug holes, cylinder walls good?  deep scores? look at exhaust ports, wear will be worst there
screw in sparkplugs and torque them to spec..change them before this next winter if you buy it (don't just put the same type plugs in the previous owner had, they might not be the right plugs for that engine)
chain case look good?  chain scars showing through? any jb weld?


prop the back of the sled up on a post or highlift jack, a fence post top and tie down strap, or tailgate works
track whole? spin it by hand if you can, might be a bad spot, are the track clips good?  or worn through? is the brake hanging up in one spot? track spin evenly? track drive shaft missing cogs? cogs worn out?
tunnel bent? bumper solid?
rails bent?
is the hifax chewed through and into the rails? anti stabs?
roll the bogie wheels, bearings shot? missing wheels? 

[KFhunter]

Maybe I will get really soft and put in a heater this year maybe even a radio!

there's a guy up here running around with a tracked rzr, 
I was sure glad when he couldn't go no further, the snow was a lot nicer to ride on without those huge trenches those tracks make 

snowmobiling in tire or track ruts sucks just a bit 

[idaho guy]

Maybe I will get really soft and put in a heater this year maybe even a radio!

there's a guy up here running around with a tracked rzr, 
I was sure glad when he couldn't go no further, the snow was a lot nicer to ride on without those huge trenches those tracks make 

snowmobiling in tire or track ruts sucks just a bit 

 

Yes they do

[bearpaw]

For a very long time I was going to get tracks for my Kodiak.  Then more and more hound guys and trappers on several FaceBook pages were selling their tracks and going back to snowmobiles.  Lots of them said after using both for a while they were going back, go further quicker and a lot less gas. So I started to reconsider.  I think I'd like to try a sled designed for what I want to do instead of using a sled that is not designed to trap or haul dogs.

We own a yamaha viking on tracks and snowmobiles, we use the snowmobiles 90% of the time. You will get things done 2x or 3x faster with the snowmobile than a tracked UTV. However, when you have a lot of people or gear to haul, or if there are a lot of bare spots on the ground, then the tracked UTV will shine.

I wonder if a guy had double ended skis on a hound trailer (or any trailer for snowmobiles) and a tongue that flipped over, so you could tow from either end.   

Stop, unhook trailer, toss tongue to the other side, go turn around your sled, drive past your trailer, pull trailer to your sled hitch or back sled up, take off back the way you came. 


I know wet or crunchy snow its hard to turn them skis if you had to drag the trailer around to aim it back the way you just came. 


I use a toboggan, but I don't have any need to have a trailer on suspension for dogs.  The toboggan is easy to spin around.

We rarely have to unhook to turn around with the tundras pulling a dog sled, just know in advance where you want to turn so you don't have to stop and keep it moving. But if you aren't sure where you'll need to turn around, yeah, it's probably a good idea to unhook then turn around.

[bearpaw]

Running a trapline it should be no problem to keep the sled in tow when turning around on a trail that you've been up before.

[Machias]

Great discussion!!  Really enjoy threads like this!!

[bearpaw]

Great discussion!!  Really enjoy threads like this!!

  I've never had a chance to actually see a skandic or talk to anyone who has ridden them. I had sorta been thinking about getting an Expedition in the future, it's also available with the 20" track, but I want to hear what you think of the skandic you get?

[Machias]

https://lewiston.craigslist.org/snw/d/kooskia-skidoo-tundra-ii/6929640216.html

[Tracker0721]

Well last week I picked up the skandic! Might get some new skis for it, new visor, definitely need a new belt and to clean the clutch as it’s all dirty and looks like the guy might’ve sprayed some carb cleaner and had it overspray on to it. Runs fantastic though!

[KFhunter]

If the belt has fried to the point they needed carb cleaner to get the melted rubber off most likely there's something wrong.   Not a deal breaker to be sure.

I would check clutch alignment but also check the motor mounts, a loose/broken motor mount will let the engine roll over under torque to the point the clutches are out of alignment and you'll continually fry belts. 

In fact I think I'd pull the engine and look for frame cracks and put in new engine mounts, rebuild the clutches, scotch bright the clutch surfaces good and put in new jack shaft bearings.  Then I'd install new drive chain in the chain case and do some research on the gearing, some of them are too tall geared for wet/heavy snow so droping a tooth or 2 on the drive sprocket can do wonders for low end. 

Then I'd carbon burn the pipe to clean it up, some of them get an inch or more of carbon in the pipe and you loose a lot of power and retain heat, or rather the heat isn't effectively used in the way a 2 stroke needs (needs pressure pulses, a dirty pipe subdues that)   


You got time before the snow comes and the things suggested don't cost a lot of $ and might save you a massive headache right in the middle of trapping season.

[Tracker0721]

Oh my bad! No the belt isn’t bad, just dirty. Oily. And he didn’t spray the clutch on purpose. He said when he got it it had a bees nest in there so he cleaned it all out but it’s sat in his shop for 3 years and now the dust is stuck on it like it does to oil and grease. So I’m assuming he got carb cleaner or something on it when he cleaned it out. Hasn’t registered it since 2017 and said since he bought it he’s only used it to do laps around his place. Never wanted to trailer it out of Lewiston to find snow. Retired guy with a mechanics shop. The skis both have cracks in the plastic but since I’ve got the time and money why not fix em.

[bearpaw]

Did he have non-ethanol fuel in it? If it had old fuel, I'd get rid of that no matter what fuel it was.