Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020

[Wsucoug]

I feel the more uniform our voice is the better our chance to gain favorable results with WDFW. For me, my thoughts align greatly with Bangos. I see way to many cougars on my cameras, and this is the first year I have seen ZERO mature bucks in the area I hunt.

We need to increase our opportunity. There is no shortage of cougars in 117 and 121. I can't speak to the other units as I don't hunt them, but from what I hear, it's no different.

Do we know from past experience with other rule changes if the commission will take our comments and basically blend the options? Or is it options A through F period, with no changes to the current text possible. 

[Wsucoug]

Why on earth would evaluating social dynamics (people) and adjusting guidelines even be a consideration? How does that fit into their stupid narrative of "good science".

Didnt you know?  Science = feelings.  Duh.

Have you ever seen data sets from these types of studies? They are often not very convincing and also hard to reproduce because the environment is so dynamic. Additionally good science is slow, it takes years to collect data, and when you finally collect the data, it may be already out of date because disease goes though and wipes out the deer populations changing a important environmental factor (blue tongue anyone?)

This method could take into account what sportsman are seeing in the field and make changes faster. What are the guides and outfitters seeing?  Large landowners seeing? Lots of cougar sightings and no deer.........well we can take that into account next season. 

What is hard is how do you maintain accountability? Words are cheap when there are no consequences.

[buckfvr]

Too many wdfw employees are anti hunters, too many inslee constituents anti hunt, so it seems wdfw wants you to spend every last cent you have to keep them afloat with out killing anything except baby deer.

[hunter399]

Too many wdfw employees are anti hunters, too many inslee constituents anti hunt, so it seems wdfw wants you to spend every last cent you have to keep them afloat with out killing anything except baby deer.

I'm sure they prefer non harvest at times.More resource to charge you for next year.

[hunter399]

Most hunters are gonna want to hunt cougar while already in the field .The problem is there playing this against us.When the winter season is gone , We will never get it back,EVER.A lost oppertunity never to be seen again.I haven't e-mailed yet but I might just express my thoughts on keeping what we have now and adjusting quotas to meet harvest guidelines.Everyone of the options just seem like where getting bent over with every option.not enough harvest,or to much harvest ,or reduced season or all of the above.Even the option to hunt cougar general season , no quota,then close jan 1 .They know not all gmu hit quota before Jan 1 ,so every option is gonna reduce cougar harvest, Then you guys on HW want to choose the one that reduce the season as well.Sad times for cougar hunting I tell ya.

[WAcoyotehunter]

@Elkslayer I am the biologist working on the cougar behavior project and am the one that captured the cat on Dec 5th and 30th.  I obviously didn't intend to mess up anyone's hunt and didn't see any vehicles around either day.  If you would like to talk more about the project and what we're doing you can feel free to give me a call anytime.  I'll also be at the NE WA wildlife meeting in Chewelah later this month to discuss the project.

Bart George
509 671 6149

[Skyvalhunter]

So you must have a background on the cougar status then and agree that something has to be done with respect to the population

[Special T]

Incidental harvest of cats is HUGE. Something like 95% of cats in this state are taken while hunting a different species, namely deer and elk.

If you mess with the earlier part of the season your not gonna kill as many cats.

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[Jingles]

I totally agree that 95% of cougars are harvested incidentally while hunting other species as IMO there are very few that would be inclined or physically able to track/ pursue a cat for 6 to 8 hrs over miles of various terrains. I can honestly say that having attempted to accomplish that for the last 30 years unsuccessfully, even after they extended the season to hunting could be done when there was snow on the ground ( mid to late 90's)  it is not for the out of condition weak hearted city slicker.  Hence I do not see any major changes forthcoming until  Cougars starts killing Skinney Skiers or children waiting for school buses (happened in the Mid 90's near Mazama without the killing, check with Timberfaller for verification) then it will be TOTAL PANIC and complaints from those that have tied the hands of the hunters and WDFW to manage the cougar population.
It is WDFW's responsibility to manage the game populations, All Species, in the State not Anti hunters or voters 

[Wsucoug]

Incidental harvest of cats is HUGE. Something like 95% of cats in this state are taken while hunting a different species, namely deer and elk.

If you mess with the earlier part of the season your not gonna kill as many cats.

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WDFW probably has a pretty accurate number.  When you harvest a cougar they ask you if you were cougar hunting or if you were doing something else when you take the hide in to get it sealed.

[bearpaw]

Okay, you guys got to read through this.  One option is to abolish the quota.  One is to reverse it so the quota shutdowns would only be in effect during the early season, with the late season open no matter what.  Option 3, flat out closing the season after dec 31st.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2019-12/draft__alternatives_for_cougar_management_final_draft.pdf

It says final draft, so they probably are not going to be very receptive to many other options. When they adopted the wolf plan, every option put the same excessive number of wolves in this state, we were screwed no matter what option was chosen.

I see a few good options in some of the recommendations but lack any faith that WDFW will do anything meaningful.

Master Hound Hunters
Volunteer hound hunters could provide help with cougar safety removals and public hunters could benefit if allowed to take a cougar. That would be a huge win for the hunting community and for public relations in cougar impacted areas, local residents get rid of problem cougar, hound hunters get to work their dogs, and a public hunter gets an opportunity to take a cougar! Why keep throwing cougar in the landfill? This is an excellent idea!

Season Structures
Lots of talk about early and late seasons, why not keep both, split the quota and save 20% or at least one cougar in every cougar management area for the late season, so everyone gets opportunity.

Population Dynamics
This is where WDFW really falls flat on their face! They are still hung up on studies done by Wielgus a proven fraud who works for the anti-hunting community now, every other western state has done studies on cougar and nobody got the same results as Wielgus! DOH! WDFW needs to get past his rubbish!

That's about all I've got to say at the moment!

[hunter399]

Okay, you guys got to read through this.  One option is to abolish the quota.  One is to reverse it so the quota shutdowns would only be in effect during the early season, with the late season open no matter what.  Option 3, flat out closing the season after dec 31st.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2019-12/draft__alternatives_for_cougar_management_final_draft.pdf

Option 1 does not abolish the quotas.From the link for option 1.

Implementation  Option  1 Decide if  current  season  dates  are still  acceptable  and  change as  necessary  (e.g.,  later  opening date,  exclusion of  April,  etc.). Continue  mandatory  checks  and  harvest  data  collection. Harvest  guidelines  would  still be  the  same  as  current, but  implemented  throughout  the  entire season. Hunter  hotline, reporting,  and closures  would be  implemented as  they  currently  are in  the winter.   

Option 1 General season structure (dates to be determined, 1 animal bag limit) with statewide harvest guideline. The department could vary the dates to allow for more focused cougar hunting opportunities. Closure occurs when we meet statewide guideline.

Options Option  1  Permit  hunting  opportunity In this  option,  all  hunters  could hunt  for  cougar  during  regular  general  season  (Sept  1 through December  31)  and  cougar-only  hunters  could apply  for  by  permit  winter  season.   

Sub-adult  cougars  of  both sexes, defined as  less  than 24 months  of  age, are  excluded from  the revised  Harvest  Guideline calculations  and  seasonal  closure triggers

Using  existing  research  data and  the scientific literature,  generate a new  habitat  map  for Washington that  classifies  the  landscape  into one  of  four  classes  of  habitat  quality  –  “High”, “Medium”, “Low”, and  “Unsuitable”.    We  would base  habitat quality  designations  on a combination of  biotic  and abiotic  landscape  characteristics  (e.g., forest  composition, terrain ruggedness, and human footprint).  The  amount  of  area  of  each habitat  class  would be  summed within  each  PMU  and  assigned  a  cougar  density.    The  current  harvest  framework would still  be applied throughout  the  state  (i.e., season length and structure, 12-16%  harvest limit),  albeit with new  population estimates  for  each PMU

Basicly new cougar map
New statewide quota
Only adult cougar counted
Permit season for winter hunting
No increased harvest.
They can change any season dates they want to reflect harvest.
That option 1 in a nutshell.

[buckfvr]

In the end, theyre going to do what they want to do and it wont be anywhere near enough.    They absolutely will not allow hunter harvest to spike.   

[Special T]

"E.Recruiting dedicated cougar hunters Description The department should consider improving efforts to recruit cougar hunters and marketing cougar hunting opportunities. Currently, less than 1% of the licensed big game hunters in Washington are cougar-only hunters. Approximately 36% of Washington big game hunters hold a cougar tag. Through this option, the group would advise providing better information to hunters, focus the message on opportunities, and re-evaluate the current cougar season structure to provide dedicated cougar hunters improved opportunities." page 16
https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2019-12/draft__alternatives_for_cougar_management_final_draft.pdf

I see this as a sorry attempt to think the Department can substitute large numbers of deer and elk tag $ with cat hunting. I cannot fathom how these number could offset the decline in tag sales $ the WDFW receives. There certainly is not any way to do so only offering boot hunting. Not even sure you could do it with hounds because the tag price would have to be so high.

[Skyvalhunter]

I really don't see any of these options have a significant decrease in the population of the Cougars as is needed. When we as hunters and the WDFW allow outside groups to determine the outcome it won't be in our favor. Especially since we don't participate as a group.