Official notice that lion changes are on the table for 2020

[bearpaw]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record WDFW could legalize a trapping season for cougar at anytime without legislative approval.
They may not be able to bring hound hunting back but to say they are helpless to increase harvest is just not true.
Change the status of cougar to dual big game/furbearer and set a season. I guarantee trapping cougar is a viable option.

Absolutely agree!

[Loup Loup]

It is apparent with these, in most areas low quotas, WDFW has no interest in allowing more cougars to be harvested by license buying sportspersons. The WDFW could allow taking cougars with sticks of dynamite and it doesn't make a darn bit of difference when the quota is set so low AND depredation take is not factored into the harvest numbers, that a full quota is not enough take to even slow down the yearly recroutement in the population.
That being said, I think as long as these low quotas are not being met, or are not being met til the very end of our long season, depredation take is covered up,  allows WDFW to blow smoke and take credibility for their management model.
All we can do is get off our rears and kill more cougars quicker every year.
It is a good time to be a predator hunter.

[Sutherland]

 

Good input.

[Special T]

Yet to hear a word about the meeting which doesnt bode well for ungulates.  The composition of the commission alone, makes me highly suspicious of fair representation for hunters.  It lookes to me now as if meetings are 100% protocol and 0% about bringing about changes.

True there is only 1 self professed hunter. and appears to be heavily weighted to the fishing side of things. I cannot comment on the fishing side because I have not followed that bag of worms.
https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/commission/members

Molly Linville while not a hunter appears to get it. While not a hunter her current work as a rancher and growing up on a wheat farm near Rearden lead me to believe she understands the realities.

Don McIssac wouldn't seem like a big supporter of hunters from his experience. From the audio Ive listened to he doesn't speak that much but asks the most pointed and intelligent questions of the group.

Other commissions are good, and there are a few that are horrible. In general I think this is one of the better commissions we have had.

I wouldnt think for 1 second that the  change to a Friday only meeting was at the behest of the commission. I heard that they stayed late on Saturday so that everyone that signed up to talk about the Cougar issue could be heard.

[buckfvr]

I just cant help but to think the commissioners are viewed by wdfw as their colleagues that will favor them in their role as intermediaries with us.  I only feel this way as over the years of seeing how all these meetings play out with little or no suggestions acted upon or ever any credit given to the hunt/fish community.  Its like we are incapable of intelligent opinions, and only they know what is really happening out there in nature.  It has always been, wdfw fulfills their obligations for protocol but seldom takes any actions.

[Special T]

I just cant help but to think the commissioners are viewed by wdfw as their colleagues that will favor them in their role as intermediaries with us.  I only feel this way as over the years of seeing how all these meetings play out with little or no suggestions acted upon or ever any credit given to the hunt/fish community.  Its like we are incapable of intelligent opinions, and only they know what is really happening out there in nature.  It has always been, wdfw fulfills their obligations for protocol but seldom takes any actions.

I dont think most sportsmen appreciate the amount of inside baseball that is required to make changes.  The plainly obvious has to be proved in science. Lets not forget that increasing cats was proposed some years back and approved by the Commission and then Blocked by our Govenor Jay Inslee. If you want this problem resolved (like i do) you need to 1 get involved to get rid of Jay. 2 accept that reducing cat numbers requires unique solutions that likely means you wont be part of the harvest. If you look at most hunting harvest numbers vs safety removals hunter harvest is LOW in comparison.

I dont know about you, but I am willing to support Trapping, Sheriffs like Klickitats Bob Songer, Tribal members pushing the legal boundaries on hound hunting and trapping, or any other manner of solution. I hate to be a Buzz Kill but i doubt we will get the Perfect Solution. Certainly because sportsmen have not invested enough time into reading and researching the issues.

What Sportsmen Organization do you belong to? Are they active on this issue? if they dont have one why have you not volunteered to at least help out? It takes a lot of time for a Non Bio/government employee to read, learn and digest the proposals. To even make a comment that can make an impact means you need to know almost as much as the Department employee you are disagreeing with!

[Bango skank]

532 anti hunting idiots sent in a prefab letter opposing cougar hunting, big shocker.  Wonder how many were actually washington residents?

Its always protect these "beautiful" animals.  What if cougars were ugly, would they not care then?  Probably not.  These people dont seem to give a damn about caribou or moose, a couple ugly critters by just about anyones standards.

[hunter399]

532 anti hunting idiots sent in a prefab letter opposing cougar hunting, big shocker.  Wonder how many were actually washington residents?

Its always protect these "beautiful" animals.  What if cougars were ugly, would they not care then?  Probably not.  These people dont seem to give a damn about caribou or moose, a couple ugly critters by just about anyones standards.

532 that is alot
I can barely get like 10 emails sent over season shutdown.
No caribou in washington all gone very sad

[hunter399]

I don't know if this will offend you bango.And we are barely on a speaking term on here again.

But I did send an email as you encourage.
Went something to the effect.
Keep the seasons the same and raise quota as needed in more populated gmu.That all these different options where a joke.That they already have regulations,quotas,and the tools they need to manage cougar.That they needed better account of populations and raise quota where needed.

It was something like that .
Don't be mad at me ,you do like hunting cougar in April .Com-on I know you do.

[Special T]

I don't know if this will offend you bango.And we are barely on a speaking term on here again.

But I did send an email as you encourage.
Went something to the effect.
Keep the seasons the same and raise quota as needed in more populated gmu.That all these different options where a joke.That they already have regulations,quotas,and the tools they need to manage cougar.That they needed better account of populations and raise quota where needed.

It was something like that .
Don't be mad at me ,you do like hunting cougar in April .Com-on I know you do.

Raising the quota is more of a Game Management Plan issue. The department has some funny numbers on Cat densities and such that have allowed them to slow roll increasing the quotas. Add to that the last time the department did propose raising the quotas the governor nixed it.

I agree that all of the choices are poor. the one that i think is a little better doesn't include sub adults in the quota... I almost think no change is better tho because it keeps the baseline of the departments nonsensical numbers easier to track.

[Bango skank]

Why would status quo be better than increasing the quota?

I prefer number 3, as the total number is higher than 4, where they dont count sub adults.  My reasoning for this is i dont trust some wdfw personnel to actually call a sub adult a sub adult.  I know of 1 local game warden who doesnt think we should kill cougars because theyre "beautiful."  No joke.  You think if you bring a 20 month old cat to him to have it checked in he wont call it 24mo+ to have it count toward the quota?  Wouldnt be surprised if some other folks at wdfw, bios, whatever, would have a similar agenda.

[Special T]

Why would status quo be better than increasing the quota?

I prefer number 3, as the total number is higher than 4, where they dont count sub adults.  My reasoning for this is i dont trust some wdfw personnel to actually call a sub adult a sub adult.  I know of 1 local game warden who doesnt think we should kill cougars because theyre "beautiful."  No joke.  You think if you bring a 20 month old cat to him to have it checked in he wont call it 24mo+ to have it count toward the quota?  Wouldnt be surprised if some other folks at wdfw, bios, whatever, would have a similar agenda.

What Im trying to say is that the only way to solve the problem is increase the quota right? The only way to do that is through changing the GMP.  IF we stay with the status quo and remove a change wont that make the data more clear that it needs to be increased? Throwing a change into the mix allows the department to say "Lets wait and study the effect of this change".  We know that changing the seasons no matter the choice wont significantly increase harvest. 

Top that off by comparing the number of cats killed in  as safety of depredation VS season vs the hunting season and in the NE the numbers are close to 3 to 1 I want to say the numbers i saw wer high 90s and mid 30s in one district.

[Bango skank]

The only thing wdfw could implement legally that would have a chance at us getting cats under control would be to allow trapping.  They know theres a problem.  We know theres a problem.  Theyre at least (potentially) giving us something here.  Its s step in the right direction.  They cant just go whole hog gloves off, the antis would flip.  We have to just get a little bit at a time to prevent a massive crap storm from the non hunting public and animal rights groups.  We got small step #1 with bears.  This could be small step #1 for cougars.  Its kind of the same thing in my eyes as the way anti gunners erode our rights.  Just a little bit at a time so as to prevent a massive backlash.  If we take enough small steps over time, we can eventually get somewhere.

[Special T]

The only thing wdfw could implement legally that would have a chance at us getting cats under control would be to allow trapping.  They know theres a problem.  We know theres a problem.  Theyre at least (potentially) giving us something here.  Its s step in the right direction.  They cant just go whole hog gloves off, the antis would flip.  We have to just get a little bit at a time to prevent a massive crap storm from the non hunting public and animal rights groups.  We got small step #1 with bears.  This could be small step #1 for cougars.  Its kind of the same thing in my eyes as the way anti gunners erode our rights.  Just a little bit at a time so as to prevent a massive backlash.  If we take enough small steps over time, we can eventually get somewhere.

Trapping would help the West side achieve its quota numbers. How would it help the NE where almost all quotas are meet?

If i Lived on the east side i would push my Sherriff to form trained dog handler posses like the Klickitat Sheriff  did.  IF we assume that other areas  could have as much "Depredation kills" as a 3 to ratio that the NE does then we would kill a lot more cats.

IF i was a houndsmen I would make a few friends in the Colville or Yakima tribes and teach them how to hunt with hounds because they could stack up more cats with ZERO restrictions all across the areas where deer and elk need help. I dont think there is a workable solution inside of the WDFW on this issue. I am unconvinced that Sportsmen have tried hard enough to explore solutions outside of its hamstrung bureaucracy. 

[Bango skank]

Still 3 units in the ne that havent met quota.  And thats without the quota being increased.  So combine the increased quotas with a trapping season, it would be a start.  But what i would like to see is hunting having no quota, then allow a trapping season with a liberal quota.  But baby steps.  If we try to get everything at once, well get nothing.  Its the only way.

And yes, id love it if the natives would hammer the north half with their dogs.  They cant touch 121, 117, 111, etc etc though.

On the subject of tribes hunting predators, if any colville boys are on here that want to hunt wolves in the north half, pm me, and id gladly holler at you when i see them, hear them, or find fresh tracks in the snow.