Hoyt vs. Bowtech vs. PSE vs. Mathews

[OltHunter]

Wow, wow, WoW !
So many great responses, and so much good information. Thank you everyone. Many good points made that I will take to heart, my next step I think is to shoot the Hoyt, the only one I haven't shot yet. Then, try to narrow the field down some...
Tell me more about tuning, as I understand it, using a rest with micro-tuning is not as good as cam tuning.
Also, when do I tune; New/different arrows? String replacement? Over time?
I'm trying to figure out the value of Bowtech's easy tunability.
OltHunter, you say the Hoyt was the hardest to tune, I've not yet fondled one, so I'm not sure what makes it harder. As much as I will rely on a good shop to get me set-up and going, I would like to eventually be able to do my own work on the bow.

I think it was more so the grip for me. I bareshaft tune and had it dialed in, I actually robinhooded a bareshaft into a fletched at 30 yards. Then it just got inconsistent. I could have put too many twists in somewhere or needed a shim once the strings settled. Im pretty sure it was hardly shot. Either way I sort of gave up on it and moved on. I'll post something here on my tune process a little later. But yes, you set you centershot and arrow height through the berger hole, then twist cables and tune around that. Once it's good, then micro tune the rest and any adjustments you may have on the cable guards.

UPDATED: attached picture of robinhood.  This was actually at 20 yards.  It was my favorite fletched arrow too.

[OltHunter]

So tuning is something like asking someone's preference on bows.  It's all very personal and can be done in a lot of ways.  I will try to explain my process.  Most hunter can get by with a quick tune at their dealer and be fine for hunting.  hitting a 6 to 8" plate at 40 yards is good enough for the majority of hunters.  But not for me. I want the remove as much variables as I can that I can control, and i can control the tune.  I want a 0" group at 40 yards, because then if i torque something, i have a glove on, or have my heart rate too high, my miss or jerk will keep my arrow within the kill zone instead of sending it high, low, or worse in the guts.  We all can control the tune, so why not super tune...if you can.  I understand most don't have access to a press and draw board.  Most are overwhelmed by the process and don't think they can do it, but you can. 

The theme of tuning is to set your rest to centershot first, and adjust your rest at the last part of your tuning process, trying to work your cables first.

Is this the best way to tune, maybe not, but it works for me and I can get any bow tuned within an hour or so hitting with broadheads at 60 yards.

First, start with the right arrow spine.  With a long draw, you are going to enjoy the extra speed, but will have a harder time getting the correct spine and your grip will not be as forgiving as the arrow has longer to travel on the rest.

with 31.5, your arrow probably will be in the 30 to 31" cut range depending how you like it.  You will most likely need a 250 spine.  You might be able to get away with a 300 based on the poundage you end up at.  When you look at company's arrow charts, those are usually off 100 grain heads.  With the long shafts, you will want to look at 125, which adds 5 pounds to the chart.

Cut your arrows as short as possible to your comfort level and not having any chance to overdraw and have it go into your hand!

Equipment needed to super tune:
Bow Press
Draw Board
Weight scale
Arrow saw

If you are going to get into bow hunting or shooting for that matter, these are all necessary and good investments instead of having to go to your dealer.  These pay for themselves rather quickly.  I like to just shoot for fun, so i'm trying to shoot everyday.  It's relaxing and a fun hobby of mine to shoot.  plus i can do it in my backyard out to 60 yards so i'm lucky that way.

Once you get your bow, max out the poundage, set your draw length on the cams (or with mathews and prime, swap out the cams).  Measure your ATA, should be close.  If it's not adjust.  This is especially true with used bows since you don't really know what type of twisting was done prior.  You have to look at how twisted a string is to adjust buss/control/strings to get the right ATA.

After check brace height, get it close.

With all the used bows I've got, ATA and brace height were all fine.  I think it's hard to get those off, but still good to check.

Run an arrow along the cam to check cam lean.  Should be close to parallel to the tip of your arrow touching around where your nock will be.  Bowtech's you can math them up on both ends.

The main one to really check is the draw weight.  If you have a 70# bow, you want the peak weight to be at 70#.  If it's too much or too little, you are adjusting the buss cable to dial that in.  You don't want it at 69# and you especially don't want it at 75#!

Once that is all set, dial the weight down to what you think you will want it to be, making sure to make exact turns on each screw.

Now put it on the draw board and check cam timing, don't rely on the timing marks at rest.  For all bows now, you want to start with both cams hitting at the exact same time as possible.  You will also find, at the end of the tuning process, most will have the top hitting slightly ahead, but not in all.

Work the control cables for that.

Next, set your nock height.  Most bows now seem to like the bottom of the arrow through the middle of the berger, if not a tick higher.  I set all mine bottom of arrow through middle.

Tie up your dloop.  I tie nock points above and below my arrow, 3 over unders on top, 6 on bottom.

Now set your centershot with your rest.  Most will be around 13/16, Primes are 7/8" from the riser at the front and back. 

Nock an arrow and lay another arrow on the inside side of the riser (vertical part ), move your rest in or out to get those at parallel as possible by eyeballing.  Hoyt you can sort of look down the came and line it up with the poundage adjustment screw.  If your centershot measurement is off 1/8" or more, you will need to adjust your cam lean on the bows except for Prime.  Prime you will adjust the flex riser.  You want to get the arrows as perfectly parallel as possible as close to centershot measurement as possible. 

Move the arrow now to resting on the bottom of your shelf, get those as close to parallel as possible moving the rest up or down, erroring on the side of nock high.  Primes seem to like 1/8" nock high, and most I've found like them a little higher than 0.  I don't think any should end up nock low.

Now you are all set to shoot.  9/10 you will have a close to bullet hole on paper at 5 feet.

I'd run 50 to 100 shots through now, focusing on your rest (making sure no contact), getting your peep perfect, sighting in, working on form ect.  You aren't caring about tune during this, you are getting your strings settled.  One thing you could be doing is tweaking your draw length by twisting up your main string to +/- fractions of inches to get it perfect for you.  Your draw length may need to be 31 5/8 or 31 3/16. 

To super tune, you want the most consistent grip and form you can get or else you will be going down rabbit holes.

Another thing to do now too, is to dynamic spine tune your arrows.  Run them through paper to try to get consistent tears with all of them.  You will be turning the nock to the different fletches.  You will be amazed at how different they can be.  If you are picking the worse arrow to paper tune, you will be chasing a rabbit again and they wont all tune. 

Find the spot on your arrow where you are getting the most consistent tears.  Even if they are all tail left or tail high, that is good.  Consistency is the key.  This is something people ignore a lot.  It takes times, but you have the time as you are going along the process.  If you have one a bullet hole, one tail left, one tail right, you will never be able to tune it!

After all that shooting, your grip is good and you feel consistent with your form, move on to paper/bareshaft tune.  I'm not a fan of paper, but it's all the same in the end.  Bareshafts are going to show issues a lot more, but will also be harder if your grip isn't consistent.  You don't have to deal with paper though.  You are looking at where they are hitting in relation to your fletched arrows and the angle of entry (if you have a target that can show that).

Generally you are looking at tuning at few feet, 5 yards, and 15-20 yards.  Bareshafts I will end up at 20 to 30 yards, looking for them to be hitting in the exact same spot on the exact same angle of entry.  In all of those spots, I will be looking at making my adjustments with cables first.  If it's nock high/low, i will work the control cable.  if it's left/right i will be working the buss for cam lean. I will get that as close as possible to perfect as i can making 1/2 to 1 full twist each time. 

Start with your high/low first.  Work the control cable first.  If you make a 1/2-1 twist and it doesn't change anything, work your rest.  I like to work as small adjustments as possible.  I'd rather go to my press an extra 10 times than do something too much and have to go backwards.  Prime's you will be adjusting the draw stops to hit at the exact same time after you make your adjustments.  Other's will just have a gap on the bottom cable stop (most likely)

Then move on to your left/right.  Work your buss cables first, with Hoyts and Bowtechs, you will not have to adjust your rest to get this absolutely perfect.  Prime's you play around with the flex riser before adjusting the rest.  Mathews you have to work your top hats.  Get all of these as close to possible as perfect, then adjust your rest if needing an extra adjustment.  We are talking 1/32" at a time.

Once it's all satisfactory, do some type of walk back tuning to do a final rest adjustment.  Another one to check out too for a fine tune control cable adjustment is pulling overly hard into your back wall and seeing where the arrow hits.  You want pulling normal and pulling hard to hit on the same horizontal plane.  It has a name, but forgot what it's called.

Then do some broadhead tuning at 40 yards, to do another final rest adjustment if needed.  At this point you shouldn't.  They all should be hitting exactly at the same point.  There maybe 1/32" adjustments.

This is an overview, there are a lot of details into the adjustments, but there are lots of information on line.  If you setting on Hoyt, nock on's John Dudley has all you need to tune your bow.  Tim Gillingham has a great tuning video for gold tip on youtube.  Lots of info out there.

Good luck! 

[WapitiWhack]

Aaaaaaaaannnndd. . . .  WoWW!!!
Well, thank you so much for all that info. I've saved it for later, right now I'm still trying to figure which one to buy! lol
Thanks again, I really appreciate you sharing all your knowledge and experience with me.

[Ghost Hunter]

Messed my elbows up and couldn't draw my Bow tech back at max setting for laye season.  Was nice being able to adjust it to middle setting.

[WapitiTalk1]

Buck the trend with the glam bows, go with the best (the original innovators in compounds, who owns the patents on the technology that many of the big box companies still use), get a Darton  . 

The only drawback with Darton Archery bows is you can't find them on this side of the big river anymore (hard to find a bow shop that carries them).  So, that's certainly an issue if you wish to shoot one first (as many folks do).  You'd have to get one directly from Darton Archery and either set it up yourself, or, take it to a local bow shop to have them set it up.  They are very nice bows though   



https://www.dartonarchery.com/

[follow maggie]

The only way to know is to go shoot them. Somebody that's not you telling what's best for you is worthless information. There are a lot of variables between people.

[dilleytech]

All these company’s make great bows. If I were to rank them right now it would be a tie between bowtech and pse then Mathews then Hoyt. I would shoot them all and pick what just feel good to you. Not all bows will have a nice draw cycle at that long of draw. Hoyt has kinda fallen behind in technology and are a bit over priced. Pse is making the best carbon right now. If that’s your thing. Bow tech would be the best for tunability.

[pd]

RJ, go back to making cheese burgers.  Jeesh.  I was ready for bed, now I can't sleep.

Nice bull.  Never heard of that bow maker.  Old guys + old bows.  Makes senses.

To the OP, this thread is a gold mine.  Good luck.

[trophyhunt]

I love my hoyt, that being said, my buddy has a PSE and I absolutely love his bow.  I will be shooting a PSE when I upgrade from my hoyt.

[bhawley76]

Ford Chevy Dodge debate