Troubling Decline in Yakima Elk Herd

[jmscon]

@Karl Blanchard
@plateauNDN

Plat you once said that Aaron Blanchard had an idea that you thought would work for either helping tribal members report or to help the state with their counts to include tribal harvest, or something like that. You said it was his plan but I was wondering if you or Karl could elaborate and or throw out a couple of the ideas so that some on here could help keep those ideas out here and moving.

[Tbar]

It has absolutely nothing to do with what meat is better that's just a side product its called power and greed and the furthest drift from tradition as one can get my forefathers would frown upon such actions it has gone on way to long and unfortunately it will continue until nothing is left when hands are tied the resource is vulnerable and the resource will be what pays the greatest cost in the end as long as there is money to be made and an axe to grind individuals will take advantage of the situation rather then to see the big picture and become a solution to a problem, indigenous ancestory all the way to newly aquired citzenship provides rights and privelages that should be respected an not abused to show power like it or not mistakes were made in the past to all walks of life nobody can fix that we can only learn from it and move forward in a better way then what took place in the past and continuing the battle only leaves us in the past move forward from it dont harbor it and certainly never take it out on the resources that were put here for all to respect, the resources not only elk deserve better to assure that they are here for future generations and that respect should be shared equally from all sides and parties. hunting is a tradition for many cultures and we should work together to make it the best it can be the resource deserves it

Are you talking Ag producers and their disregard for a public resource? (Bolded)  If so you're spot on!

[Rainier10]

general tags, permits tags and masterhunter general and permit are all accounted for in those statistics they release.

I am not sure if landowner damage tags are accounted for.  I am sure an email to WDFW could answer that.

I will send in a request and report back.

[jackelope]

general tags, permits tags and masterhunter general and permit are all accounted for in those statistics they release.

I am not sure if landowner damage tags are accounted for.  I am sure an email to WDFW could answer that.

I will send in a request and report back.

I'm assuming Tbar is looking for specifics. Like, how many were MH hunts, etc.

[Rainier10]

general tags, permits tags and masterhunter general and permit are all accounted for in those statistics they release.

I am not sure if landowner damage tags are accounted for.  I am sure an email to WDFW could answer that.

I will send in a request and report back.

I'm assuming Tbar is looking for specifics. Like, how many were MH hunts, etc.

Gotcha. @Tbar is that your concern?  Is your concern that MH damage hunts are not about harvesting animals for herd health but more about saving farmers crops?

I can say that the MH area that is below my cabin is working.  Elk were thick in the area when it started and now not so much. The hunt has pressured the elk to moving east into the vantage area.  It has created lots of vehicle impacts but it has saved the farmers crops and fences.

I will let you know if the master hunter harvest numbers are included in the harvest report but my guess is yes.  I am sure they can tell me how many elk are harvested in 3911 or 3912 as well.

It might not be the best system but I think they are trying to track it.

The unanswered question still on the table is "do the tribes track harvest in any way?"  Do any of the tribal members here want to chime in and say if they report to someone how many elk they kill and where they kill them?

I report how many I kill, what their sex is, how many points they have on each side, where I kill them and how many days I hunted in each gmu to do it.

If the tribe does track harvest do they get that specific as to how I report?

[TriggerMike]

I'd be curious to know if anyone from either side would be willing to have a civil discussion without slinging mud?

I am willing. I want this to actually get figured out.

[dvolmer]

I don't know or have the answer to everything but here is a few things I have experienced, My hunting partners brother in law owns an orchard in eastern Washington (I wont tell where because I don't want him to have any fallout).  The deer are eating his young trees.  He contacted the game dept and they came out and looked at the damage.  He gets damage control tags when he wants them.  he is not a hunter but some of his friends are.  I hunted the orchard two weeks ago on a damage control tag.  Most of the tags are either sex tags.  He (friends and family) have shot 24 deer off of his orchard in the last 12 months out of season.  When he needs a tag they email it over to him and he can give it to whomever he wants to.  If they kill a deer they send an email or call the WDFW employee in charge of the program in his area.  As far as I can tell, there is no reporting of these results at all in all the statistics that the WDFW provides to the public.  Who knows what farmers and where are getting these permits.  when we hunted it we were asked to not post pictures on facebook or other areas and to not brag about the hunt so others would not know about it.  I think the whole thing is messed up if you ask me.  I think these should all be special draws with youth and seniors getting the first shot at the tags.  Just my opinion.

On the cow verse bull meat for Jerky, All I can say is I can make Jerky out of both and you cant tell the difference.  Now a steak or a roast is another issue and thing.  Cow is much better.  But a native shooting a 700 pound bull can make a lot more jerky than shooting a 300 pound cow.  Plus the antlers on the bull are worth hundreds of dollars and on a true trophy bull (360 inches plus) is thousands of dollars.

As for being able to do anything about the native hunting, good luck!  Not a chance!  Why would they report when they don't have too!  Yes, some of you will say because it is the right thing to do, but they don't really care.  Why does a dog lick his hiney?  Because he can.  They will hunt with all of the most modern gear and equipment but when they show up in the court system to be challenged they will show up in feathers and loin clothes pounding a drum and singing chants.  The liberal left jury will look at them immediately and be appalled that we are even thinking of trying to inforce some sanity into the system and throw it all out of court immediately.  That is why WDFW has decided to not waste any more of their recourses fighting them in court.  They always loose.  Face it fellas, Washington will never address their predator issues no matter if it is wolves, natives, cats, or bears.  King County runs this state and will continue to do so.  Wolves could be eating children here in eastern Washington on the way to school and the animal activists in King County  would insist we do nothing.

It is interesting to me as I hunt other states that the natives all hunt there own rules and their own seasons but only on their reservations.  Outside of their reservations they have to follow the same rules as others as it should be.  But in Washington and Oregon they have used the liberal court system to their advantage.

Just my two cents on the matter from an old hunter here in eastern Washington that probably doesn't have a lick of sense!  You can kiss Washington state good bye when it comes to resident hunting oppurtunities.  Mabybe, and I say maybe, someday it will all come crashing down because it is us that are truly funding all of the native hunting and the care and well being of all of these preditors.  The natives and the activists don't pay anything!  They are just sucking the system dry!  It is only in the pocket book that this might (and probably wont) get any attention and solved.  So just keep buying those overpriced licenses! (and they are wondering why Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming are selling out on all of their out of state licenses)  It is going to get nothing but worse and I mean a lot worse.  What I have seen in just the last 5-10 years is scary!!!

[dvolmer]

I'd be curious to know if anyone from either side would be willing to have a civil discussion without slinging mud?

I am willing. I want this to actually get figured out.

It never will when one side holds all of the bargaining chips.  It will never reach negotiations.  Natives don't want to negotiate, they have already won! To them is the question, "for what reason would we negotiate?"  We already have our cake and were able to eat it too!   Why in Gods green earth would they want to do that.  Its like winning the Superbowl game and then agreeing to meet with the loosing team to negotiate who will be the actual champions.  Not a chance in #$%@

[trophyhunt]

I'd be curious to know if anyone from either side would be willing to have a civil discussion without slinging mud?

I am willing. I want this to actually get figured out.

It never will when one side holds all of the bargaining chips.  It will never reach negotiations.  Natives don't want to negotiate, they have already won! To them is the question, "for what reason would we negotiate?"  We already have our cake and were able to eat it too!   Why in Gods green earth would they want to do that.  Its like winning the Superbowl game and then agreeing to meet with the loosing team to negotiate who will be the actual champions.  Not a chance in #$%@

100% true! 

[trophyhunt]

And we will never get an honest answer from the jerky guy or the tribe about harvest numbers.  Non tribal numbers are out there.

[dreamingbig]

Aaron, Would you be willing to be honest and tell us how many bulls you have killed in the past few years?  Also, when this subject comes up about your jerky business, we want to know why you shoot bulls instead of cows?  Cow meat is much better, imho

Can you produce the number of elk harvested in the name of conflict by the state?

Can anyone? The state can produce harvest numbers as a whole. I can't figure out specifics after a brief look.

Can the Yakama tribe produce the number of elk harvested by tribal hunters at all?
Legit question. I have no idea.

Are damage numbers included in your table?

Like I said, I couldn't figure out specifics. When you say damage hunts, do you mean MH type hunts or the ones they issue to landowners/farmers/etc?

Can the tribe produce any numbers at all?

Maybe with a "troubling decline" the state has some incentive to engage.  But, it's going to have to get past the walls that have been built largely on jealousy and a false narrative.

What is the false narrative?  I can’t hunt year round nor can I hunt a bull this year.  An Indian can.  My harvest report is mandatory.  Tribal harvest reporting is where?


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[Special T]

It's too bad so many of you focus on what you cant change.

If as much effort was put into having the Yakimas follow the Colvilles lead on predators as complaining we would really get some where.

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[PlateauNDN]

I've expressed my opinions many many times on here and regardless of what I say it gets old being told what and how I do things. The Indian experts on here are providing all the credible information and speaking for me so let's stick with their narratives.

I mean, who doesn't enjoy being told who they stand up for, who they like or don't like and conduct themselves.






 

[Tbar]

Aaron, Would you be willing to be honest and tell us how many bulls you have killed in the past few years?  Also, when this subject comes up about your jerky business, we want to know why you shoot bulls instead of cows?  Cow meat is much better, imho

Can you produce the number of elk harvested in the name of conflict by the state?

Can anyone? The state can produce harvest numbers as a whole. I can't figure out specifics after a brief look.

Can the Yakama tribe produce the number of elk harvested by tribal hunters at all?
Legit question. I have no idea.

Are damage numbers included in your table?

Like I said, I couldn't figure out specifics. When you say damage hunts, do you mean MH type hunts or the ones they issue to landowners/farmers/etc?

Can the tribe produce any numbers at all?

Maybe with a "troubling decline" the state has some incentive to engage.  But, it's going to have to get past the walls that have been built largely on jealousy and a false narrative.

What is the false narrative?  I can’t hunt year round nor can I hunt a bull this year.  An Indian can.  My harvest report is mandatory.  Tribal harvest reporting is where?


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Come spend a day with me and I believe you'd have a different perspective.

[dvolmer]

It's too bad so many of you focus on what you cant change.

If as much effort was put into having the Yakimas follow the Colvilles lead on predators as complaining we would really get some where.

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The Yakimas don't and won't care about predators until it gets to the point that they cant find any animals to harvest.  Until then they could care less.  If it ever gets that bad, it will be beyond the ability to reverse and the herds will be past the point of no return.  All the jerky man cares about is if he can get the animals he needs to make his product.  when the herds are cut in half and the permit numbers are depleted to the point that we cant hunt, he doesn't care as long as he can get his and there is nothing in the way of him getting what he wants until all the animals are gone!  You guys are crazy to think that they are going to partner up with resident non-natives.  They watch and read these threads and giggle and laugh and insert a comment here and there to stir the pot and let it keep going.  Some members on this forum think that if they cater to them and try to talk sense to them that they can understand and make compromises and changes.  absolute nonsense!  These guys have no intention at all to concede anything or change anything.  They have it just the way they want it. Look at Plateau's last post.  Notice the giggling emoji.  That is all this is to him.  He could care less about what you all think and what he likes best is that you do absolutely nothing about it!