Is Eastern Washington Elk Hunting dying?

[sandman76]

Wouldn't it be more far to say predators, poachers, and tribal insane harvest numbers are put huge dents in it ?

Yes, in fact, that's exactly what to say.  But I'd put tribal insane harvest over poachers.

Aren't they one in the same

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[Gringo31]

Last I recall.....and I realize a hard number to get into print...


What is the cougar population in the state?  I realize this number is vague.  When I was in NATRS classes at WSU 20 years ago I remember them saying it was around 4K.  Today, it's hard to even get them to give a number.

IF (Big if) 4000 cats kill a deer or elk a week (lets pretend it's just deer) that is 4000X52 = 208K deer a year.  Split that however you want betwen deer and elk.  In any other category, throw in tribal harvest, normal hunting harvest, road kill etc. and you'll quickly find out that it ain't about the tribe or vehicles.  It is hard to swallow when tribes say how much deer and elk and "heritage" blah, blah but they don't back it up with real numbers to actually manage it.  I'm not trying to bring drama but just call out what is.  The real problem is management.  It's preservation vs conservation.  And....it's broken. 

[trophyhunt]

Either way, how can you support the tribal kills are not a big part of the problem if they won’t give us official or real numbers? You can say that goes both ways, but the word gets out how many just one tribal member kills, and that’s more than most people kill in a life time. Makes me sick when people defend the tribal kill numbers.

[hughjorgan]

I am not defending tribal take and I know exactly who you are referring to with the amount of elk taken. Then turning around selling it for jerky. Tribal take is out of the states hands, nothing we can do about it. The state can do a better job managing our herds with better predator management, not allowing over harvest by special permit and even addressing areas of high roadkill, improving habitat, etc. I think it would be better to focus on growing the herds so there is more opportunity for all of us then beating the proverbial dead horse that none of us can affect.

[KFhunter]

more elk = more road kill   
less elk = less road kill




20 years ago I quit riding motorcycles on the hwy, too many close calls with deer.

Now I ride again on the hwy and no deer jumping out in front of me

[huntnnw]

road kill in the blues is a non factor, the indians tho is another story. Its unbelievable to see. Almost all from ID

[Cheif]

Yes shane. Does anybody know how many elk the nez pierce from Idaho are allowed in Washington's blues units? Any way we could get a close estimate ? Is there any other tribes from Oregon or Washington that's allowed  the hunt unregulated in the blues?

[huntnnw]

Nothing I know of. Heard they could shoot whatever they want at any hour. They would drive by camp with blankets on roof of truck and rifles with spotlights .

[idaho guy]

Nothing I know of. Heard they could shoot whatever they want at any hour. They would drive by camp with blankets on roof of truck and rifles with spotlights .

 

I think this is correct virtually no restrictions. They don’t even have to get sheep horns plugged. Washington’s biggest problem is four legged predators but anyone that doesn’t acknowledge that native hunting is making good management impossible is clueless. Tribes have too at least cooperate with the different states on management at some point. Having one group maybe draw a tag maybe in 25 years and another get completely unregulated killing is ridiculous. I am not saying take away tribal hunting but it’s long past time they need to work with the states on some common management goals.

[meatwhack]

The Nez Perce and Umatillas are the two tribes that hammer the mature bulls in the blues. It’s very sad to see one of the best quality herds in the country go to where it is now.

[buglebrush]

Nothing I know of. Heard they could shoot whatever they want at any hour. They would drive by camp with blankets on roof of truck and rifles with spotlights .

 

I think this is correct virtually no restrictions. They don’t even have to get sheep horns plugged. Washington’s biggest problem is four legged predators but anyone that doesn’t acknowledge that native hunting is making good management impossible is clueless. Tribes have too at least cooperate with the different states on management at some point. Having one group maybe draw a tag maybe in 25 years and another get completely unregulated killing is ridiculous. I am not saying take away tribal hunting but it’s long past time they need to work with the states on some common management goals.

I see no reason for them to be able to hunt any different than me off the reservation.  It's totally ridiculous!  Honestly, I try to avoid even thinking about it, because it's so infuriating.  The only way they should be able to do it is if they traveled there on foot, not using roads or trails built by the evil white man.  Wear, eat, and use only things they built themselves with no purchased components.  No Atvs, cars, camo, guns, phones, gps, tarps, tents, backpacks, phelps game calls, flashlights, etc...and even then it shouldn't be allowed. Maybe I should go to the regions of the world where my ancestors were brutally murdered and driven off their ancestral lands and demand my ancestral right to do whatever I want.

[idaho guy]

Nothing I know of. Heard they could shoot whatever they want at any hour. They would drive by camp with blankets on roof of truck and rifles with spotlights .

 

I think this is correct virtually no restrictions. They don’t even have to get sheep horns plugged. Washington’s biggest problem is four legged predators but anyone that doesn’t acknowledge that native hunting is making good management impossible is clueless. Tribes have too at least cooperate with the different states on management at some point. Having one group maybe draw a tag maybe in 25 years and another get completely unregulated killing is ridiculous. I am not saying take away tribal hunting but it’s long past time they need to work with the states on some common management goals.

I see no reason for them to be able to hunt any different than me off the reservation.  It's totally ridiculous!  Honestly, I try to avoid even thinking about it, because it's so infuriating.  The only way they should be able to do it is if they traveled there on foot, not using roads or trails built by the evil white man.  Wear, eat, and use only things they built themselves with no purchased components.  No Atvs, cars, camo, guns, phones, gps, tarps, tents, backpacks, phelps game calls, flashlights, etc...and even then it shouldn't be allowed. Maybe I should go to the regions of the world where my ancestors were brutally murdered and driven off their ancestral lands and demand my ancestral right to do whatever I want.

I agree 100 percent. They should be able to do whatever on reservation but abide by rules when off the Rez. I know one and told him same thing ride your horse and use a longbow and I would feel better about it. They use 3/4 ton diesel trucks and 300 ultra mags to shoot bull elk during the rut and then later on winter range.

[huntnnw]

What cracks me up with the blues herd is there were never elk there. White man brought the first ones in by railroad from Yellowstone in the early 1900’s. Somehow Indians have rights to shoot them . What’s funny is I have never witnessed a Indian out of their rig hunting . Talked to a rancher one day rounding up cattle and said he loses several cows a year to being shot and left.

[hughjorgan]

What cracks me up with the blues herd is there were never elk there. White man brought the first ones in by railroad from Yellowstone in the early 1900’s. Somehow Indians have rights to shoot them . What’s funny is I have never witnessed a Indian out of their rig hunting . Talked to a rancher one day rounding up cattle and said he loses several cows a year to being shot and left.

Same thing how they claim rights to hunt around Yakima and Ellensburg. If you read the WDFW historic range description for these locations they claim archeological evidence of elk being in these areas and used by natives but it is rather vague on what evidence they write of.

[idahohuntr]

Lot of misunderstanding and misinformation in some of these posts...let me clarify a few things:

Elk are native to most of North America, including the Blue Mountains in Oregon and Washington.  Overharvest and unregulated hunting in the middle 1800's drove elk to near extinction in much of the Northwest. Elk were brought back as a result of several conservation measures including transplants from Yellowstone. 

Tribes have treaties with the United States - those treaties supersede state law and thus do not require Tribes to have any permission or cooperation with state fish and game agencies.  Those treaties reserved the right to harvest elk - nothing about them limited tribes to any particular method or technology.  The rights to hunt and fish were not limited to just the reservation boundaries...it explicitly included areas off reservation.  Nearly everything I mention above has been adjudicated in the Supreme Court.

All that said, of course co-management would be desirable for everyone, but we won't get anywhere if non-tribal attitudes are that Tribes need to follow state law or that non-tribal hunters should have the same rights and opportunities as tribal hunters.  I don't state this as my opinion of what is right/wrong - just the facts as I see them.