Taking away quality permits or general season

[huntnphool]

 

<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice.

Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation.  The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old.  Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful.  If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything.  But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW.

+1

[Lapua07]

Back up to my previous post. . Now that we’re conversing about Inslee... do a little background prior. Jim Unsworth came to our less then ok F&W department from Idaho. A true leader in promoting the wolf back into a thriving ecosystem. He pushed the envelope to get get them really established then realized the fatal mistake or.. felt he’d truly accomplished something in a historical sense jumped ship and had a nearly mirrored image here in Washington. I know it’s off topic but still in scope per say towards a diminished population. I’m firm on the over hunting playing it’s part. Under controlled predators. Reintroduced predators. And just plain and simple to the wire poor management. 10-12 years ago I was seeing 5-10 140+ mule deer i was letting walk in the NE corner. Not a prime mule deer area for the state at all. 2 years ago after 9 days of boots to dirt on the same area I turned up 3 mature does with no fawns. This year... not a single deer or deer sign. This is a roadless area with that I’ve hardly seen anyone in over the years. These deer are under attack unknowingly by poor judgement by things that were never put to vote for the people.

[huntnphool]

These deer are under attack unknowingly by poor judgement by things that were never put to vote for the people.

 It’s their MO... https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,243491.msg3271735.html#msg3271735

[KFhunter]

 

<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice.

Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation.  The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old.  Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful.  If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything.  But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW.

It's equally, perhaps even more simplistic, to say that mule deer are affected by hunting moreso than predation by lions and other predators.  Unless you can show me where does aren't getting bred?   We take bucks, and its true a lot of bucks don't live past 3yrs due to hunters, but a 2yr old forkie can breed a doe too.   

I'm not interested in talking about quality of hunt for large mature bucks, I'm interested in herd size and growth yet keeping hunters hunting.  A permit only, or 3 or 4 pt minimum buck, means less people hunting, less money for WDFW and management.   Means less fish get planted.   Let's grow the herd, then discuss quality.  I don't really care to get into a quality vs quantity debate, I only care about overall numbers for now.  The huge bucks will come later.

[huntnphool]

 

<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice.

Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation.  The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old.  Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful.  If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything.  But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW.

It's equally, perhaps even more simplistic, to say that mule deer are affected by hunting moreso than predation by lions and other predators.  Unless you can show me where does aren't getting bred?   We take bucks, and its true a lot of bucks don't live past 3yrs due to hunters, but a 2yr old forkie can breed a doe too.   

I'm not interested in talking about quality of hunt for large mature bucks, I'm interested in herd size and growth yet keeping hunters hunting.  A permit only, or 3 or 4 pt minimum buck, means less people hunting, less money for WDFW and management.   Means less fish get planted.   Let's grow the herd, then discuss quality.  I don't really care to get into a quality vs quantity debate, I only care about overall numbers for now.  The huge bucks will come later.

 You can start by reducing the amount of pressure/hunters. Eliminate the late tags and extend the general season to the end of the month or through the last weekend.

[KFhunter]

Are you talking about a specific GMU or the whole state?   We already have a short season for mule and no late season here.   If you want to make that statewide I wouldn't argue. 

I'm only interested in growing herds in most areas of the state where we've been seeing declines, to do that end all doe hunts, make sure does get bred, and reduce predator loads.  Pretty simple really. 

[Lapua07]

The states in decline as a whole. Follow up on a little more of the western mule deer are in decline in all states. Washington just put in a fast lane seems like. I’ve hunted mule deer in nearly all units close to us here in corner. Numbers are in the toilet. Last year I was along for most of a week during peak rut on a Douglas Quality mule deer permit. Seen a total of 8 mule deer. Not a horn one. Buddy of mines dad drew Aladdin Quality muley this year. Day 12 of the season hasn’t even seen a deer.

[Piscatory_5]

I think it was huntnphool that a few years ago came up with the "every other year" idea based on the last digits of your wild ID, it would immediately cut all pressure in half. My add on to it was to include all species(mule deer, whitetail, blacktail and elk), set it up so a guy could hunt 2 every year, example- if your ID ends in odd on a particular year you can hunt elk and whitetail if you choose, if it ends in an even number you can hunt mule deer and blacktail. There are ways to construct the every other year idea so you will be at least hunting every year and every other you will be hunting your favorites. Do away with ALL special permits and extend seasons a little, example- mule deer, 2 weeks ending on the 31st of October, no matter what day the 31st falls on.

Why limit to big game, hunting and fishing every other year. small game every other year regardless. It's fine to hear or read some folks posts complaining about the over hunting but they still apply for special hunt permits and harvest bucks. Hipocritical maybe a little. Just as well stop people from buying property out in the country to build there home on so they don't take away habitat.

[huntnphool]

Are you talking about a specific GMU or the whole state?   We already have a short season for mule

 Which I will argue is part of the problem!

[Skyvalhunter]

Do we agree nothing will get done and we will just continue to talk about it

[Lapua07]

Do we agree nothing will get done and we will just continue to talk about it

Yep! That’s a given!

[huntnnw]

 

<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice.

Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation.  The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old.  Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful.  If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything.  But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW.

Exactly! On my late tag there couldn’t be any more glaring evidence of hunters wiping out 3pt or better bucks. I saw tons of forks, spikes and 2x1’s yet only 2 3pt bucks . Somehow predators ate them all as they must be following the state 3pt min.

Something everyone on this forum can do legally is hunt bears and yotes. Bears wreak havoc in June on calves and fawns ! Idaho just released a study in Clearwater and selway where 44-46% of the elk calf mortality was due to bears. Yet I’d be willing to bet 10% of the guys bitching about elk and deer numbers don’t even attempt to hunt bears.

[Lapua07]

 

<snip> WDFW's resting state is incompetence or laziness when it comes to game management...sadly...unlike predators...they really could do something here without worrying about interference from the Governor's office.

Bear tags will be the only thing I buy here next year. 😉



This is the truth of the matter folks, Inslee will sink anything meaningful regarding Predators.   In light of this fact calling for reductions in opportunity is shooting ourselves in the foot.   Without predator control the population will continue its decline, the predators will grow in population to suck up what we don't take and the decline will continue.   Any deer/elk WE don't take is one more for a cat, a wolf, a bear or a tribal member that rejoices there's a few less white guys to compete with. 


With inslee sinking predator control, I don't see a win no matter how much WE sacrifice.

Your statements are based on the false and simplistic view that all herds in all places are limited by non-human predation.  The reality is - there are areas where HUNTER harvest is why virtually no mule deer bucks make it past 2.5 years old.  Unless you can explain to me how it is cougars, wolves, and bears are only eating 3pt or bigger bucks...those are the areas where going to permit only would be successful.  If there are no deer surviving because of predators or other non-hunting factors, then I would agree...pointless to limit hunting as it would not do anything.  But in the real world - hunter harvest has a very significant effect on populations and their composition and it needs to be managed, not ignored by WDFW.

Exactly! On my late tag there couldn’t be any more glaring evidence of hunters wiping out 3pt or better bucks. I saw tons of forks, spikes and 2x1’s yet only 2 3pt bucks . Somehow predators ate them all as they must be following the state 3pt min.

Something everyone on this forum can do legally is hunt bears and yotes. Bears wreak havoc in June on calves and fawns ! Idaho just released a study in Clearwater and selway where 44-46% of the elk calf mortality was due to bears. Yet I’d be willing to bet 10% of the guys bitching about elk and deer numbers don’t even attempt to hunt bears.

[boneaddict]

Do we agree nothing will get done and we will just continue to talk about it

Yep! 


No excuse for anyone shooting doe. Legal or not.  All doe hunts need to stop. It used to be a management tool.   Now it’s a money grab.   Get back to wildlife management!

[JimmyHoffa]

Do we agree nothing will get done and we will just continue to talk about it

Yep! 


No excuse for anyone shooting doe. Legal or not.  All doe hunts need to stop. It used to be a management tool.   Now it’s a money grab.   Get back to wildlife management!

There are still some areas for blacktails where they seriously need to be thinned out and does should be fair game.  These areas tend to be predator free and hard to get much hunting access.