What happened to pearrygin and okanogan deer hunting

[archerykraze]

http://westernwildlife.org/cougar-outreach-project/legal-status-management/

Here is an interesting link about cougars in WA. You can see the downfall in WA management of the species as it went from being paid a bounty until 1961 then reclassified to a predator in 1966. 1996 we lost the use of hounds except in Ferry, Okanagon, Chelan, Pend Oreille, Klickitat and Stevens until being banned statewide in 2011. Since then quotas per region have been cut and harvest cut to 1 cat per hunter. Even with an estimate of 2100 cats in the state killing a deer every 9-12 days (we'll say 3/month) comes out to around 75,600 deer a year on a guesstimate. Heard a biologist 5 years ago tell me he predicts of at least approximately 140 cats running the ridgelines from Tonasket to Vulcan (Ferry County border to Canada) which would approximate some 5040 deer a year when hunter harvest in those GMU's 204/101 were 776 and 691 so total 1467 deer antlered and antlerless. This is all speculation from my end but we can all agree cat sightings have soared in the last 10 years including residential areas as competition increases. We aren't even including the idea of black bear, coyotes and wolves which is insane. Yes, hunters could make some cuts to help the cause but I'm seeing changes to the management of predators being the savior of our game herds. Sorry for the rant but this state is driving me nuts on how we have let this happen. My  . Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, we all know word of mouth aint always true and I'm kind of a numbers guy.

[Katmai Guy]

It would be nice if the WDFW would present some of these facts about herd impacts of each initiative that is to be voted on, to the public prior to election day.  Maybe some of King county residents would vote differently knowing that eliminating hound hunting, bear baiting, or wolf introduction will result in other undesirable results.  Pipe dream?

[boneaddict]

One of the frustrations has been that they haven't seemed to recognize the problem.   If you read Fitkins annual fall article, you'd have thought hunting in the Methow Valley was gangbusters and the herd was up to snuff.   I didn't catch this years version .....    I figured it was part of the wolf campaign 

[buckfvr]

Its far easier to manage people than it is to manage predators.........they can deny us, restrict us, and even cite us, but theres nothing they are willing to do to bring the predators to manageable levels.  Purely on wdfws back........they are the problem so long as they are a political extension.

[Skyvalhunter]

More blame goes on Inslee

[buckfvr]

He would be the root of the problem, i.e. "political extension".

[7mmfan]

It would be nice if the WDFW would present some of these facts about herd impacts of each initiative that is to be voted on, to the public prior to election day.  Maybe some of King county residents would vote differently knowing that eliminating hound hunting, bear baiting, or wolf introduction will result in other undesirable results.  Pipe dream?

Yep. Because most of them don't really care about the animals, they care about us killing them. To many of them, man has no right to hunt them, so the more predators there are to kill prey, means less for us hunters to pursue, eventually forcing us out of the game entirely.

[Bango skank]

It would be nice if the WDFW would present some of these facts about herd impacts of each initiative that is to be voted on, to the public prior to election day.  Maybe some of King county residents would vote differently knowing that eliminating hound hunting, bear baiting, or wolf introduction will result in other undesirable results.  Pipe dream?

Yep. Because most of them don't really care about the animals, they care about us killing them. To many of them, man has no right to hunt them, so the more predators there are to kill prey, means less for us hunters to pursue, eventually forcing us out of the game entirely.

Predator hunting is the game now.  When prey is scarce, predators kill competition whenever theyre able.  Why should we be any different?  As soon as this thanksgiving weekend is over ill be out calling, hoping to bring home a lion if im fortunate and hopefully pile up a few dogs in the process.

[ghosthunter]

I have said it before here that I think they should shut down all mule deer hunting in the okanogan four four years. Than start back up with.

No doe tags
No multi season
No youth any deer ever.
Pick westside or east not both
Whitetail or mule not both.
No non resident Mule deer tags.

I would be against draw only because it would kill the family deer camps.

[Bango skank]

Are non resident hunters really an issue? Hard to imagine non residents ponying up the cash to come hunt muleys here.  The cost of non res tags and the crap hunting opportunity just seems like it would discourage people from coming here.  Better opportunity and lower cost for non res in other states.  Cant be that many out of staters coming to hunt deer here i wouldnt think.

[ghosthunter]

Are non resident hunters really an issue? Hard to imagine non residents ponying up the cash to come hunt muleys here.  The cost of non res tags and the crap hunting opportunity just seems like it would discourage people from coming here.  Better opportunity and lower cost for non res in other states.  Cant be that many out of staters coming to hunt deer here i wouldnt think.

https://bigdeerblog.com/2018/05/mule-deer-why-antler-point-restrictions-dont-work/
You most likely are right.
So why have them? One is too many in a state with population growth like ours.

Cut out all the extra stuff and get back to one deer ,one opportunity , per resident hunter.

And I will add get rid of point restrictions. Many young bucks are killed and left laying in the field. It has been documented in every state around us. And it happens a lot here.



https://bigdeerblog.com/2018/05/mule-deer-why-antler-point-restrictions-dont-work/

 

[Bango skank]

I would hazard a guess that the young muleys shot and left in the field tend to be forkies, that people are hoping those little nubs of browtines will be an inch.  That can be real hard to judge with the little brow tines muleys grow.  And some people just cant control themselves if they think just maybe those nubs are points.  Simple solution to that, dont count brow tines in the apr.  Make it a "3 up" rule, for both mule and white.  I believe it was pennsylvania that implemented that.  Now im not going to speak for muleys, but aprs really do help whitetail herds.  You can always find an article with a contrary opinion to anything, but many many instances of aprs on whitetail herds have been proven time and dgain in many different regions to improve buck to doe ratio and buck age structure in the herd, which results in more daylight rut activity, more rubs and scrapes which are mostly done by mature bucks, the does getting bred in a timely fashion allowing a fawn drop saturation resulting in greater fawn survival, and with does getting bred the first time around the rut doesnt drag out leaving the bucks to run themselves ragged too long resulting in higher buck winter mortality.  Aprs DO work, at least with whitetails.  They promote a more natural herd structure and higher buck winter survival and higher fawn survival, and a healthier herd results in a better hunting experience for all, and also results in a much higher percentage of harvested bucjs being 3.5 yrs or older.  And people can say " you cant eat antlers " all damn day, but you CAN eat meat, and a mature buck has a hell of a lot more meat on it than a 1.5 yr old peckerhead.

[boneaddict]

same for muleys

[bigmacc]

Well, just my opinion here, I don't think seasons in the Methow need to be shut down, at least general. Yep, multi season, doe shoots, youth, seniors and quality need to go away.There is no muzzy season there now(I believe ) but there is archery. Like I have been suggesting, 2 weeks, ending on October 31st for modern, add in 2 weeks for archery starting mid September til 1st of October, every other year.  I like the ideas of loosing the 3 point min. I remember my dad saying every once in awhile they would put restrictions on shooting spikes in the Methow which IMO would be a better restriction than the one in place now, yep, we have found many wounded and dead 2 points, probably more than 20 over the last 10 years alone, some with arrows stuck in them and some with bullet holes, doesn't matter, they were dead deer in the end that should not have been. Like I have said, if we as hunters give something up, we need to see an effort from the state also to actually bolster this herd also. In my opinion it starts with predator reduction. Number 1 would be the cougar population in the Methow at least, I know a few have said its man but its really not(IMHO) as far as the Methow goes at least, which is what this topic is about and is what I feel comfortable speaking to. Some say wolves, some say bear, in reality, it is all, including man, which is why I have suggested the seasons I did prior. When my cousin was with Idaho FandG back in the day we had many conversations about the Methow herd specifically which he actually hunted every chance he had. Before he passed he even noticed the cat issue, the gloves were put on concerning "the controls" of them and I remember him saying "this is not going to be good for the Methow"  and it was because of "the box" scenario I mentioned a few posts ago. The Methow is unique, its used by people, wildlife and is where deer come for "comfort" during winter, IMHO, the WDFW has lost its way when it comes to this herd. Its really not a vast area, its a sliver that runs north and south and deer congregate to the bottom during tough winters and only have one way to escape when winter hits, that is to the south, not back up, not to the left or right, just one way. Now throw in an exploding predator population, and a new predator, then throw them all in a confined space with no escape for that herd and what do you think will happen? It was and is a huge mistake in my opinion to let predators "boom" in this "space" we call the Methow Valley, its not rocket science to figure out what will suffer and IMHO its the herd. Now remember also, the bio., who lives in the valley is a carnivore expert, his specialtys is the grey wolf, the wolverine and the grizzly..... HMMM.
 I remember when some bios I knew that covered this valley actually considered the deer "their kids", I am not making this up. I am sorry for some of the folks that I know nowadays that work for the WDFW(I don't call them the Game Department because they are far from that) because some are very good people who agree with what many of us are saying about the Methow.

[Bango skank]

" we have found many wounded and dead 2 points, probably more than 20 over the last 10 years alone, some with arrows stuck in them and some with bullet holes, doesn't matter, they were dead deer in the end that should not have been. "

Like i said, a "3 up" rule would likely solve the bulk of that crap.  You dont think people are shooting forkies thinking, or even just hoping, that theyll have an inch long browtine?  3 pt minimum but browtines dont count i think would be the way to go.