Hoyt vs. Bowtech vs. PSE vs. Mathews

[WapitiWhack]

Getting into bow hunting, reading and YouTubing all the info I can on bows. I want to BOCO, so I'm looking at top-shelf models. My draw length is 31"/ 31.5", looking for a Hunting bow. Accuracy over speed. Busted up shoulders means I won't be chasing 80lb. draws... Again, accuracy over speed.
Yes, yes, I know; "shoot all the bows, let the bow choose you". I've shot all but the Hoyt, and I am not experienced enough to be making the decision entirely on my own opinion. Therefore, I am reaching out to you veteran shooters so I may gleen some wisdom from the Collective Mind.
I'm looking for factual opinions on the following bows, I'm sure everyone that has one of these loves it (at these prices, they should all be winners), I'm looking for constructive criticism's regarding them. For example, I've heard Mathews has not been so good lately with their customer service, and their strings don't last. Is the Bowtech cam adjustment reason enough to lean towards them? I have a big hand, so I like the fuller grips. But, I'm hearing the smaller/square grips are better for repeatability. How important is that? Bla, bla, blaaaa… 

Hoyt - Axis Ultra
Bowtech - Revolt X
PSE - EVO NXT 33
Mathews - Traverse

Thank you in advance,
WapitiWhack

[jstone]

Go to a place a shot them all. Pick whatever one fits you better.
I shoot a Mathews Z7
30” draw
70 pounds
430 gr. Arrow
I absolutely love my bow. Lights out. Hits hard and smooth. If I miss it is my fault not the bow. Before I shot mathews I started with a Martin bobcat. Still killed.
I am a Mathews guy cause it has never failed me. So why switch

Good luck
J stone

[Mfowl]

I say go with the Bowtech Revolt X. Dumb name but sweet bow with tons of adjustability and new technology. I have not shot any of the new bows or anything new for a few years now. I shoot a 2016 E35. Have fun in your search!

[Crunchy]

Hoyt guy here, although I still have a Mathews in the stable.  Of the list I would go Hoyt all the way.  PSE on the bottom of the list, I just dont like the finish of their bows.  Blowtech... I mean Bowtech is an ok bow usually faster compared to others.  History of limb splitting issues, and not easily tuned.  Mathews I like, but their cams are the size of dinner plates these days.  I wish they would have stayed with their old solo cam bows.  Hoyt bows I love their fit and finish.  Top notch, speed and weight equal to Mathews.  Ultimately whichever bow you buy you need a dealer that is close to home for the occasional check up. 

[hughjorgan]

I’ve been shooting hoyts for a while now. Great bow, accurate, dependable and will get the job done. The first compound I bought that was a flagship bowtech. Two years after owning it the cam failed at full draw, the company didn’t stand by their bow and the bow shop wouldn’t do anything for me. That bow shop went out of business, do your research and find a reputable shop to buy from no matter what brand you buy. They will be the ones to help you if your bow fails.

That being said I would rather have a static yoke to tune than a four track binary system with floating yokes. Hoyts are easy to tune in my experience. Youll have to shim those other bows for cam lean. Another plus for Hoyt is you are a long draw and have a longer ATA the string angle is going to be better on the longer ATA bow which Hoyt usually has a couple offerings in.

[highside74]

I'd add Prime to that mix. Shoot them all if you truly are set on buying just one and keeping it for a long time. With your draw length I'd stay above 33 inches ata and don't get to caught up in speed unless it's drastically different. Of your choices the Hoyt stands out. Great quality (You never hear of anything drastic like you do Blowtech) Almost 7 in brace height 34 ata and almost 340fps. With your draw length your arrow will be moving. I would shoot that and a New Prime Black 3 33ata 6.5 brace height. As a new archer a longer brace height is going to be a lot easier to shoot. If you need to know why brace height is important let me know.

[Russ McDonald]

I shoot Bowtech and live near an awesome pro shop.  Rock Creek Archery in Enumclaw.  He is now carrying PSE to.  I like the adjustability of a bow tech, I have owned Hoyt to.  Love both of those brands wouldn't own anything else other than those 2.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk

[Dhoey07]

I'd add Prime to that mix. Shoot them all if you truly are set on buying just one and keeping it for a long time. With your draw length I'd stay above 33 inches ata and don't get to caught up in speed unless it's drastically different. Of your choices the Hoyt stands out. Great quality (You never hear of anything drastic like you do Blowtech) Almost 7 in brace height 34 ata and almost 340fps. With your draw length your arrow will be moving. I would shoot that and a New Prime Black 3 33ata 6.5 brace height. As a new archer a longer brace height is going to be a lot easier to shoot. If you need to know why brace height is important let me know.

I just bought a Prime Impulse 34. I’ll hopefully be able to give ya a review next week

[Stein]

Get serious, get Hoyt.  That and I found a lefty used model I was looking for at a bargain price.

I think bows are like guns, tons of great options out there.  If you are buying new, get each one in your hand and you should be able to make a decision best for you.

[fowl smacker]

Used to shoot a Bowtech Old Glory, it was a great bow for me.  I now shoot a 2016 Elite Synergy.  I shot a lot of bows before I bought it.  It is by FAR the easiest and smoothest bow I've ever shot.  I shoot 70lbs and it literally feels like 55lbs and I can hold at full draw forever.  I highly recommend shooting an Elite before you make a purchase.

[OltHunter]

I currently own a Hoyt Helix Ultra, Mathews Traverse, Bowtech BtMagX, Prime CT9, and older PSE Beast 8 started with. It really comes down to feel.

They all have different grips, valleys, and draw cycles. Hand shock and thunck sound after shot. All shoot great.

I got a 32" draw. I made the decision to buy all the flagships used and settle on my top 2 and sell the rest, which I figure could get close to my money back or a small "rental" fee.

I wouldn't spend $1,200 on a new bow. Lots of bow shop sellers on forums and I've got all 4 for the price of a Hoyt RX3 Ultra after tax. I've got to run 100 or so arrows through all of them on my time, instead of hours in a shop, for a couple arrows. Plus, it's really hard to find something 32" in a shop.

Prime is easy to tune, and is more forgiving for me, but it's 39" so it's expected. This will be in my hunting kit going forward. I like narrow grips off the riser. I did have to play around with some added dampeners as it had a distinct sound, supposedly from the dual cam tracks. That's all gone now.

Mathews Traverse is going to be my other bow. Love the feel of it. But not as forgiving, I've found I pull it left more often than the Prime. Peopke complain about the top hats, but I've found them easy and hold the tune rock solid.

Hoyt, my favorite looking bow, but can't stand the grip. Cycle is great. I've found it the hardest to tune.

Bowtech super adjustable and easy to tune, shoots well. I'm on the fence whether I want a 3rd bow or to sell it too. I actually just got new limbs on warranty since they cracked. Felt tune wouldn't hold as well as others.

PSE Beast I may actually give away at some point to family or for a couple $. Fine bow, just older and clunky.

If you are interested in the Hoyt, let me know. 65# right hand, blackout with orange strings.

[WapitiWhack]

Wow, wow, WoW !
So many great responses, and so much good information. Thank you everyone. Many good points made that I will take to heart, my next step I think is to shoot the Hoyt, the only one I haven't shot yet. Then, try to narrow the field down some...
Tell me more about tuning, as I understand it, using a rest with micro-tuning is not as good as cam tuning.
Also, when do I tune; New/different arrows? String replacement? Over time?
I'm trying to figure out the value of Bowtech's easy tunability.
OltHunter, you say the Hoyt was the hardest to tune, I've not yet fondled one, so I'm not sure what makes it harder. As much as I will rely on a good shop to get me set-up and going, I would like to eventually be able to do my own work on the bow.

[fishngamereaper]

I haven't had any issues with my bowtech. Shots great and fits me good. As for tuning and such I stop by Rock Creek once a year on my way scouting and Denton spends 5 minutes with it and it's good to go.

[257wbymagkiller]

All of them are good options in reality and will get the job done with time and practice. I got a lot of insight and wisdom on here on what to get and tips and tricks. I went with what fit in my budget and waited till a flagship bow went on a huge sale cause it was last year’s model and got it at a steal of a price and couldn’t be happier. Get out and shot all that you have in mind and maybe wait a bit and see if that one goes on sale. If money wasn’t a issue for me I’d go with the Hoyt. My brother just got one and it is really nice and shoots like a dream. Very quiet to.

[sage rat]

Every few years i find myself in your shoes. It seems as tho everything advanced so much too. Ive owned all the manufactures bows you have mention and liked all at that time. Last year i bought a new bow and i was not personally fond of any of the new bows. I shot a Prime and Elite and fell in love with both of them. The draw cycle was awesome on my old worn out shoulder and i could hold them drawn for a longer time than the others. Not telling you to buy one of those but i would not discount them at all. Make sure to do some blind bale shooting before you buy and just concentrate on the draw cycle and the hand shock.  A lot of people dont notice the hand shock cause they are too busy watching the arrow.  Bows are a pain in the butt to pack through the woods so make sure it is comfy to hold while your taking your bow for a hike.  Enjoy the process and dont get in a hurry.

[OltHunter]

Wow, wow, WoW !
So many great responses, and so much good information. Thank you everyone. Many good points made that I will take to heart, my next step I think is to shoot the Hoyt, the only one I haven't shot yet. Then, try to narrow the field down some...
Tell me more about tuning, as I understand it, using a rest with micro-tuning is not as good as cam tuning.
Also, when do I tune; New/different arrows? String replacement? Over time?
I'm trying to figure out the value of Bowtech's easy tunability.
OltHunter, you say the Hoyt was the hardest to tune, I've not yet fondled one, so I'm not sure what makes it harder. As much as I will rely on a good shop to get me set-up and going, I would like to eventually be able to do my own work on the bow.

I think it was more so the grip for me. I bareshaft tune and had it dialed in, I actually robinhooded a bareshaft into a fletched at 30 yards. Then it just got inconsistent. I could have put too many twists in somewhere or needed a shim once the strings settled. Im pretty sure it was hardly shot. Either way I sort of gave up on it and moved on. I'll post something here on my tune process a little later. But yes, you set you centershot and arrow height through the berger hole, then twist cables and tune around that. Once it's good, then micro tune the rest and any adjustments you may have on the cable guards.

UPDATED: attached picture of robinhood.  This was actually at 20 yards.  It was my favorite fletched arrow too.

[OltHunter]

So tuning is something like asking someone's preference on bows.  It's all very personal and can be done in a lot of ways.  I will try to explain my process.  Most hunter can get by with a quick tune at their dealer and be fine for hunting.  hitting a 6 to 8" plate at 40 yards is good enough for the majority of hunters.  But not for me. I want the remove as much variables as I can that I can control, and i can control the tune.  I want a 0" group at 40 yards, because then if i torque something, i have a glove on, or have my heart rate too high, my miss or jerk will keep my arrow within the kill zone instead of sending it high, low, or worse in the guts.  We all can control the tune, so why not super tune...if you can.  I understand most don't have access to a press and draw board.  Most are overwhelmed by the process and don't think they can do it, but you can. 

The theme of tuning is to set your rest to centershot first, and adjust your rest at the last part of your tuning process, trying to work your cables first.

Is this the best way to tune, maybe not, but it works for me and I can get any bow tuned within an hour or so hitting with broadheads at 60 yards.

First, start with the right arrow spine.  With a long draw, you are going to enjoy the extra speed, but will have a harder time getting the correct spine and your grip will not be as forgiving as the arrow has longer to travel on the rest.

with 31.5, your arrow probably will be in the 30 to 31" cut range depending how you like it.  You will most likely need a 250 spine.  You might be able to get away with a 300 based on the poundage you end up at.  When you look at company's arrow charts, those are usually off 100 grain heads.  With the long shafts, you will want to look at 125, which adds 5 pounds to the chart.

Cut your arrows as short as possible to your comfort level and not having any chance to overdraw and have it go into your hand!

Equipment needed to super tune:
Bow Press
Draw Board
Weight scale
Arrow saw

If you are going to get into bow hunting or shooting for that matter, these are all necessary and good investments instead of having to go to your dealer.  These pay for themselves rather quickly.  I like to just shoot for fun, so i'm trying to shoot everyday.  It's relaxing and a fun hobby of mine to shoot.  plus i can do it in my backyard out to 60 yards so i'm lucky that way.

Once you get your bow, max out the poundage, set your draw length on the cams (or with mathews and prime, swap out the cams).  Measure your ATA, should be close.  If it's not adjust.  This is especially true with used bows since you don't really know what type of twisting was done prior.  You have to look at how twisted a string is to adjust buss/control/strings to get the right ATA.

After check brace height, get it close.

With all the used bows I've got, ATA and brace height were all fine.  I think it's hard to get those off, but still good to check.

Run an arrow along the cam to check cam lean.  Should be close to parallel to the tip of your arrow touching around where your nock will be.  Bowtech's you can math them up on both ends.

The main one to really check is the draw weight.  If you have a 70# bow, you want the peak weight to be at 70#.  If it's too much or too little, you are adjusting the buss cable to dial that in.  You don't want it at 69# and you especially don't want it at 75#!

Once that is all set, dial the weight down to what you think you will want it to be, making sure to make exact turns on each screw.

Now put it on the draw board and check cam timing, don't rely on the timing marks at rest.  For all bows now, you want to start with both cams hitting at the exact same time as possible.  You will also find, at the end of the tuning process, most will have the top hitting slightly ahead, but not in all.

Work the control cables for that.

Next, set your nock height.  Most bows now seem to like the bottom of the arrow through the middle of the berger, if not a tick higher.  I set all mine bottom of arrow through middle.

Tie up your dloop.  I tie nock points above and below my arrow, 3 over unders on top, 6 on bottom.

Now set your centershot with your rest.  Most will be around 13/16, Primes are 7/8" from the riser at the front and back. 

Nock an arrow and lay another arrow on the inside side of the riser (vertical part ), move your rest in or out to get those at parallel as possible by eyeballing.  Hoyt you can sort of look down the came and line it up with the poundage adjustment screw.  If your centershot measurement is off 1/8" or more, you will need to adjust your cam lean on the bows except for Prime.  Prime you will adjust the flex riser.  You want to get the arrows as perfectly parallel as possible as close to centershot measurement as possible. 

Move the arrow now to resting on the bottom of your shelf, get those as close to parallel as possible moving the rest up or down, erroring on the side of nock high.  Primes seem to like 1/8" nock high, and most I've found like them a little higher than 0.  I don't think any should end up nock low.

Now you are all set to shoot.  9/10 you will have a close to bullet hole on paper at 5 feet.

I'd run 50 to 100 shots through now, focusing on your rest (making sure no contact), getting your peep perfect, sighting in, working on form ect.  You aren't caring about tune during this, you are getting your strings settled.  One thing you could be doing is tweaking your draw length by twisting up your main string to +/- fractions of inches to get it perfect for you.  Your draw length may need to be 31 5/8 or 31 3/16. 

To super tune, you want the most consistent grip and form you can get or else you will be going down rabbit holes.

Another thing to do now too, is to dynamic spine tune your arrows.  Run them through paper to try to get consistent tears with all of them.  You will be turning the nock to the different fletches.  You will be amazed at how different they can be.  If you are picking the worse arrow to paper tune, you will be chasing a rabbit again and they wont all tune. 

Find the spot on your arrow where you are getting the most consistent tears.  Even if they are all tail left or tail high, that is good.  Consistency is the key.  This is something people ignore a lot.  It takes times, but you have the time as you are going along the process.  If you have one a bullet hole, one tail left, one tail right, you will never be able to tune it!

After all that shooting, your grip is good and you feel consistent with your form, move on to paper/bareshaft tune.  I'm not a fan of paper, but it's all the same in the end.  Bareshafts are going to show issues a lot more, but will also be harder if your grip isn't consistent.  You don't have to deal with paper though.  You are looking at where they are hitting in relation to your fletched arrows and the angle of entry (if you have a target that can show that).

Generally you are looking at tuning at few feet, 5 yards, and 15-20 yards.  Bareshafts I will end up at 20 to 30 yards, looking for them to be hitting in the exact same spot on the exact same angle of entry.  In all of those spots, I will be looking at making my adjustments with cables first.  If it's nock high/low, i will work the control cable.  if it's left/right i will be working the buss for cam lean. I will get that as close as possible to perfect as i can making 1/2 to 1 full twist each time. 

Start with your high/low first.  Work the control cable first.  If you make a 1/2-1 twist and it doesn't change anything, work your rest.  I like to work as small adjustments as possible.  I'd rather go to my press an extra 10 times than do something too much and have to go backwards.  Prime's you will be adjusting the draw stops to hit at the exact same time after you make your adjustments.  Other's will just have a gap on the bottom cable stop (most likely)

Then move on to your left/right.  Work your buss cables first, with Hoyts and Bowtechs, you will not have to adjust your rest to get this absolutely perfect.  Prime's you play around with the flex riser before adjusting the rest.  Mathews you have to work your top hats.  Get all of these as close to possible as perfect, then adjust your rest if needing an extra adjustment.  We are talking 1/32" at a time.

Once it's all satisfactory, do some type of walk back tuning to do a final rest adjustment.  Another one to check out too for a fine tune control cable adjustment is pulling overly hard into your back wall and seeing where the arrow hits.  You want pulling normal and pulling hard to hit on the same horizontal plane.  It has a name, but forgot what it's called.

Then do some broadhead tuning at 40 yards, to do another final rest adjustment if needed.  At this point you shouldn't.  They all should be hitting exactly at the same point.  There maybe 1/32" adjustments.

This is an overview, there are a lot of details into the adjustments, but there are lots of information on line.  If you setting on Hoyt, nock on's John Dudley has all you need to tune your bow.  Tim Gillingham has a great tuning video for gold tip on youtube.  Lots of info out there.

Good luck! 

[WapitiWhack]

Aaaaaaaaannnndd. . . .  WoWW!!!
Well, thank you so much for all that info. I've saved it for later, right now I'm still trying to figure which one to buy! lol
Thanks again, I really appreciate you sharing all your knowledge and experience with me.

[Ghost Hunter]

Messed my elbows up and couldn't draw my Bow tech back at max setting for laye season.  Was nice being able to adjust it to middle setting.

[WapitiTalk1]

Buck the trend with the glam bows, go with the best (the original innovators in compounds, who owns the patents on the technology that many of the big box companies still use), get a Darton  . 

The only drawback with Darton Archery bows is you can't find them on this side of the big river anymore (hard to find a bow shop that carries them).  So, that's certainly an issue if you wish to shoot one first (as many folks do).  You'd have to get one directly from Darton Archery and either set it up yourself, or, take it to a local bow shop to have them set it up.  They are very nice bows though   



https://www.dartonarchery.com/

[follow maggie]

The only way to know is to go shoot them. Somebody that's not you telling what's best for you is worthless information. There are a lot of variables between people.

[dilleytech]

All these company’s make great bows. If I were to rank them right now it would be a tie between bowtech and pse then Mathews then Hoyt. I would shoot them all and pick what just feel good to you. Not all bows will have a nice draw cycle at that long of draw. Hoyt has kinda fallen behind in technology and are a bit over priced. Pse is making the best carbon right now. If that’s your thing. Bow tech would be the best for tunability.

[pd]

RJ, go back to making cheese burgers.  Jeesh.  I was ready for bed, now I can't sleep.

Nice bull.  Never heard of that bow maker.  Old guys + old bows.  Makes senses.

To the OP, this thread is a gold mine.  Good luck.

[trophyhunt]

I love my hoyt, that being said, my buddy has a PSE and I absolutely love his bow.  I will be shooting a PSE when I upgrade from my hoyt.

[bhawley76]

Ford Chevy Dodge debate