2020 spring bear apps

[Bango skank]

Ghost hunter, i see what youre doing by posting up all the other states bear sealing requirements.  I get it.  But if were going to play the "idaho / montana / wyoming does it" game, then we should do it right.  They also have otc spring bear, hound hunting for lions, wolf hunting and trapping, leg hold traps etc.  If wdfw gives us all that, really plays the " the other states do it " game to the full extent, id gladly get all my bear hides sealed with never a complaint out of my mouth.  But for us to only have other states burdens, but not other states opportunities, screw that.

I got no argument with that logic.  I have no plans on tanning or mounting a bear unless it's a large color phase.  Skull and claws for gift projects.  It's the voters that made most of the difference from other states.  How long will it take them to be Californicated.   

And i get that in the case of somebody who doesnt want to keep the hide, its nothing but a burden.  But packing out as hide really isnt the end of the world, and if we can show them that spring season doesnt mean a massacre of lactating sows, it will help us get incre as sed spring opportunity.  So please, i know it sucks, but i encourage everybody to play along for the time being, in the hopes that we can continue to get increased bear hunting opportunities.  Not only for our own recreational enjoyment in besr hunting, but because the more bear hunting opportunity people have, the more it helps our deer out.

If we all play along for a couple years, and the harvest stats prove us out that were not out causing tons of cubs to be orphaned in the spring, then the little old ladies from seattle on the commission wont have a leg to stand on, and we should be able to get expanded spring hunting.

If we prove ourselves, and we still dont get squst anyway, then by all means, screw em.  Leave every hide in the woods and dont report a dsmned thing.  Hell, target sows on purpose at that point.

But for now, i think we should play the game.  There is still the potential to get what we need.  We just need to show them their concerns are unfounded.

[KFhunter]

I ain't packing the whole hide or skull.

I'm gonna yank out that tooth, cut the scrotum or vulva and a strip of hide to go with it. 

Would fit in a quart ziplock bag no prob.


Convince me I'm wrong.....

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Bango skank]

I ain't packing the whole hide or skull.

I'm gonna yank out that tooth, cut the scrotum or vulva and a strip of hide to go with it. 

Would fit in a quart ziplock bag no prob.


Convince me I'm wrong.....

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

If its a sow, that wont tell them if its nursing or not.  The whole point of the hide sesling thing is to convince them that a spring season doesnt cause an excessive number of nursing sows to be killed.  Your proposed method wont help us with that.

The only way we might get increased spring hunting is to convince them that were not slaughtering nursing sows.  So their milkers need to be checked.

[Alan K]

What I don't understand is what the big deal is with harvesting sows, even nursing sows...  There is not a shortage of bears out there! 

Maybe it's an optics thing? But then why do we have January cow elk hunts where the hunter actually takes two elk with their harvest, albeit the second one is only the size of a half gallon milk carton.

And it would be pretty easy to get report numbers up, simply don't sell a license the following year, not just a slap on the wrist $10 fine.

[Bango skank]

What I don't understand is what the big deal is with harvesting sows, even nursing sows...  There is not a shortage of bears out there! 

Maybe it's an optics thing? But then why do we have January cow elk hunts where the hunter actually takes two elk with their harvest, albeit the second one is only the size of a half gallon milk carton.

And it would be pretty easy to get report numbers up, simply don't sell a license the following year, not just a slap on the wrist $10 fine.

Im with you 100% on that.  Numbers need to be reduced.  But a lot of little old ladies and granola munchin tree huggers out there that just dont have a clue about our predator problems get upset by it.  Thats the bottom line.

Really, in an ideal world where our bears *and other predators) were kept at reasonable numbers and our herds were healthy, i wouldnt want nursing sows getting shot.  But as it stands, things sre so out of control, its unfortunately what is needed, as its the most effective way to reduce predation.  It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but i recognize that the problem is to the point that its justified.  Just like shooting a female coyote when there are pups in the den.  Is it a bit harsh?  Yeah. Do i like the thought of helpless pups / cubs dying?  No.  But the situation we are in, anything goes.

[dilleytech]

What is the hide sealing requirement for?

If I don't bring out the paws, I've missed some of the hide.  If i decide not to skin the head I've left out part of the hide.  If I shoot a bear with a poor hide I'm going to cut a little fur along with the evidence of sex and let them try to pin me against the wall without any definition of "hide". 

People are committing real crimes all around the state, do they really want to argue with me over what is technically a what constitutes a valid hide?

In Idaho the rules say you cannot be caught with a hide that isn't sealed.  It doesn't say you'll be penalized for not wanting the hide at all...

Its because not enough people are reporting.  They feel mandatory hide sealing will increase percentage of reporting.  They want more data on how many bears are being killed, and specifically how many females.  The people who are opposed to spring bear hunting, and are blocking more liberal spring bear hunting regs, cite their main concern as sows with cubs being killed.  So with the mandatory hide checks, they figure the vast majority of successful hunters will check in their hides so they can keep them.  Then, if it turns out theres not a wholesale slaughter of nursing sows going on, the people blocking increased spring bear hunting have lost their only real argument.  So going along with the minor inconvenience can only help us in the end, unless everybody decides to whack lactating sows in the spring.

I expect this will have the opposite affect. Just like the mandatory tooth submission. People who kill bears and don’t follow the letter of the law will simply report not successfull to avoid exposing themselves.  Make following the law more simple and you will see more honest reporting.

[dilleytech]

Has no one been able to confirm are we actually expected to carry out the entire hide? Seems obvious you wouldn’t. For example if you wanted to to do a shoulder mount you would need less then half the hide but sure you would need it sealed to have the work done. Why couldn’t you just bring the skull with fur on it and proof of sex attached to one quarter? Doesn’t make any sense to me.

As previously posted.  Spring 2020 regs available online.

Report requirement: Hunters will be required to report hunting activity for each special permit awarded in addition to their general season hunting activity report. All successful bear hunters must validate (notch) their bear tag, notify the department within 72 hours of kill (excluding legal state holidays) by  calling 844-992-7266 to provide the hunter’s name, date and GMU of kill, and sex of animal. The raw pelt, with evidence of sex, and skull must be presented to an authorized department employee for sealing within 5 days of kill. All permit hunters must comply with harvest reporting and submission of  biological samples. Failure to comply with the submission of biological  samples is a misdemeanor pursuant to RCW 77.15.280.

That’s not an answer to the question. “Raw pelt” seems pretty vague. I guess a ear will do..

[Bango skank]

Has no one been able to confirm are we actually expected to carry out the entire hide? Seems obvious you wouldn’t. For example if you wanted to to do a shoulder mount you would need less then half the hide but sure you would need it sealed to have the work done. Why couldn’t you just bring the skull with fur on it and proof of sex attached to one quarter? Doesn’t make any sense to me.

As previously posted.  Spring 2020 regs available online.

Report requirement: Hunters will be required to report hunting activity for each special permit awarded in addition to their general season hunting activity report. All successful bear hunters must validate (notch) their bear tag, notify the department within 72 hours of kill (excluding legal state holidays) by  calling 844-992-7266 to provide the hunter’s name, date and GMU of kill, and sex of animal. The raw pelt, with evidence of sex, and skull must be presented to an authorized department employee for sealing within 5 days of kill. All permit hunters must comply with harvest reporting and submission of  biological samples. Failure to comply with the submission of biological  samples is a misdemeanor pursuant to RCW 77.15.280.

That’s not an answer to the question. “Raw pelt” seems pretty vague. I guess a ear will do..

See bold above.  An ear will not do.

[Ghost Hunter]

Skull is attached to one end, evidence of sex at other end.  Seems simple enough.     I'm sure a good attorney could make an argument.   

[snake]

An ear, a penis, and a piece of bone you could call what's left of the skull after a misplaced shot to the head. should all fit in your front pocket.

[DOUBLELUNG]

I wrote in opposition to mandatory hide sealing but now that we have it for spring bear we should comply.  The scrotum, or vulva with a piece of hide attached including the nipples, will allow determination of sex and lactation status.  Tooth submissions are pretty important as both age and frequency of reproduction in sows can be determined. 

I don't like creating a new regulation to address poor compliance with an existing regulation, when no efforts have been made (that I'm aware of) to enforce the existing regulation.  There should have been a targeted enforcement effort at the 80% of successful hunters who did not submit a tooth as required.  Tickets and fines would have greatly increased future compliance as the word got out, and we wouldn't be saddled with carrying out an unwanted hide.

If a significant portion of successful hunters begin reporting unsuccessful, we will see a reduction in bear harvest and provide strong ammo to the people who want bear hunting reduced or eliminated.  Don't give them the data to do that.

[Special T]

I wrote in opposition to mandatory hide sealing but now that we have it for spring bear we should comply.  The scrotum, or vulva with a piece of hide attached including the nipples, will allow determination of sex and lactation status.  Tooth submissions are pretty important as both age and frequency of reproduction in sows can be determined. 

I don't like creating a new regulation to address poor compliance with an existing regulation, when no efforts have been made (that I'm aware of) to enforce the existing regulation.  There should have been a targeted enforcement effort at the 80% of successful hunters who did not submit a tooth as required.  Tickets and fines would have greatly increased future compliance as the word got out, and we wouldn't be saddled with carrying out an unwanted hide.

If a significant portion of successful hunters begin reporting unsuccessful, we will see a reduction in bear harvest and provide strong ammo to the people who want bear hunting reduced or eliminated.  Don't give them the data to do that.

Wise words we should all listen to!

[Bango skank]

I wrote in opposition to mandatory hide sealing but now that we have it for spring bear we should comply.  The scrotum, or vulva with a piece of hide attached including the nipples, will allow determination of sex and lactation status.  Tooth submissions are pretty important as both age and frequency of reproduction in sows can be determined. 

I don't like creating a new regulation to address poor compliance with an existing regulation, when no efforts have been made (that I'm aware of) to enforce the existing regulation.  There should have been a targeted enforcement effort at the 80% of successful hunters who did not submit a tooth as required.  Tickets and fines would have greatly increased future compliance as the word got out, and we wouldn't be saddled with carrying out an unwanted hide.

If a significant portion of successful hunters begin reporting unsuccessful, we will see a reduction in bear harvest and provide strong ammo to the people who want bear hunting reduced or eliminated.  Don't give them the data to do that.

A good point.  They would use declining harvest to conclude the bear population is suffering, and restrict harvest.  Wdfw says clearly in multiple publications that they do not have a population estimate for bears, znd instead use hunter harvest statistics as a surrogate for population estimates.  The higher the harvest and the higher hunter success percentage, the higher the bear population is assumed to be.  Id like to keep the aug 1st / 2 bear thing going.  Best way to show them that we have a ton of bears is to kill and report a lot of bears.

Ill be real interested to see how much of a jump in harvest numbers are reported in the northeast last year.

[Bango skank]

This made me laugh.  Looking through last years reports i think i found 2 hunts showing 50% success, but a number of 0% success.  Also, they base their success rates off of completed hunter reports.  So a gmu issuing 100 permits, that has 50 reports turned in, and 25 harvests will be called a 50% success rate, despite only 25 harvests reported out of 100 permits issued.

[Bango skank]

Yup, even with their generous method of determining success rates, there were 3.  50, 50, and 64.  I guess 3 is several.  Meanwhile there were 4 different 0% success hunts.