Were wolves imported into Washington on the downlow?

[h20hunter]

I overall don't believe the state is capable of pulling off collusion or whatever without it coming to light. Now, private groups, I could see that 100%.

[Curly]

canis lupis occidentalis  =  our new wolves, very large subspecies of grey wolf.

canis lupis familiaris   =  domestic dogs

canis lupis lycaon   =  grey wolf from back east, Michigan area

canis lupis fuscus  =  Cascades wolf, listed as extinct, yet old timers say they've seen them, brown coloring, smaller wolves

"grey wolf"  can mean a lot of things if you drop off the subspecies designation.   



canis =  dog   
lupis = wolf   

"wolf dog"

And from post #59, timber wolf = canis lupus irremotus. The article said they are much smaller at 75 to 85 pounds.

[KFhunter]

I find it funny how "old timers" sightings are always taken for granted as credible.  Look at how many people right now say they see wolves and grizz and dont know what the hell theyre talking about.  These same people will be "old timers" one day.

pick and choose your old timers huh?    I don't have any old timers telling me there was wolves in them thar hills 20,30, 40 years ago.   

[pianoman9701]

Its just a designation generally noting someone who has been around the block a time or two, experience, been there done that. Just as there is a designation for young pup, wet behind the ears, tenderfoot, greenhorn, etc.   There most certainly are idiots that become old....


I couldnt tell you the difference if there is one.  Big is big.   Face to face, pretty incredible machine.

 

I know as i become older, I've become a bigger idiot. I'm actually working on it.

[jackelope]

If any of ya talked with the Ol timers who were here in W Wa ya would know they claim these are NOT the same wolves.  I know not many people to talk to as they have now passed but the Timber wolf was not the same.  Grey wolf is larger and more aggressive.  Invasive species as far as Im concerned.

Pretty sure that’s not in question either.

[jackelope]

Wolves can travel a long ways if they want, especially if they’re looking to breed or whatever. That’s pretty much undisputed, right?
50 miles? 100 miles? If a wolf was in Twisp and was looking for a 100 mile day to stretch his legs, he could almost end up at Microsoft.

This is a 75 mile radius as the crow flies.

[boneaddict]

Twisp and was looking for a 100 mile day to stretch his legs, he could almost end up at Microsoft.

Quit teasing me

[jackelope]

Twisp and was looking for a 100 mile day to stretch his legs, he could almost end up at Microsoft.

Quit teasing me

Well they were close. There was a trail cam pic of the wolf in Snoqualmie and the one smooshed on i-90.

[Bango skank]

Nobody debates they can cover ground.  The three legged collared black wolf in the stranger pack up and moved something like 70 miles from monumental onto the spokane rez where it got shot.

[jackelope]

Why would it stop at microsoft?  it won't find a mate there, so it'll keep going.  like OR-7 did, that wolf went over 1000 miles  before it found a female. 


If there were no wolves in WA then it would travel the entire bredth of the state to find a mate, then they would find a spot to make a pack.

They aren't going to keep traveling many 100's of miles together and go: "oh, the methow looks tasty, lets go there!...can you pull that up on your google maps?" 

No but year over year, there will be new packs in new territories that will have new dispersing animals that disperse at 1-2 years old. It won’t take long for them to fan out 200 miles, especially when they’ll take off at a year old.
And this state is not very big as the crow flies. They don’t use the highways to comprise those 50 mile jaunts.

[KFhunter]

She has the home range, he's the interloper, he'll land where she is, and she won't be all that far from her momma.   

This is why two desperate females in Ione, WA started mating up with sheep dogs and hanging around town, even though they were in their home territory of the Ruby pack.   
They needed dispersing males from other packs to find em and lead them to a new territory not far away and begin carving out their home range, as he gets bigger and stronger the nearby males get older his range will grow. 

This is why having a pack established in the methow "all of a sudden" with no contiguous wolf packs nearby makes no since to me. 

A male is not going to drag a female 100's of miles to "dispirse",  he don't need to.  They'll land at the fringe of her pack she came from. 


That's why my snarky google maps comment,  they don't know what lies 50 or 100 or 300 miles away, there's no thought process "Oh I bet it's a good spot 300 miles west of here"

[boneaddict]

They don’t use the highways to comprise those 50 mile jaunts.

Well, isnt that the debate.


Still looking for the millenial trigger.....I'm still curious why Banff wolves or others didnt have the same rapid of "recolonization"  prior.   Someone could google if they'd like, but what is the distance from Twisp to Banff versus Jellystone.  Millenial wolves only travel one direction? 

[KFhunter]

A lot of what we've been spoon fed about wolves since our infancy and beyond is bogus, there's nothing magical or mythical about them.   

[jackelope]

She has the home range, he's the interloper, he'll land where she is, and she won't be all that far from her momma.   

This is why two desperate females in Ione, WA started mating up with sheep dogs and hanging around town, even though they were in their home territory of the Ruby pack.   
They needed dispersing males from other packs to find em and lead them to a new territory not far away and begin carving out their home range, as he gets bigger and stronger the nearby males get older his range will grow. 

This is why having a pack established in the methow "all of a sudden" with no contiguous wolf packs nearby makes no since to me. 

A male is not going to drag a female 100's of miles to "dispirse",  he don't need to.  They'll land at the fringe of her pack she came from. 


That's why my snarky google maps comment,  they don't know what lies 50 or 100 or 300 miles away, there's no thought process "Oh I bet it's a good spot 300 miles west of here"

You’re saying females don’t disperse?

[jackelope]

They don’t use the highways to comprise those 50 mile jaunts.

Well, isnt that the debate.

It was supposed to be more of a joke.