Points are the Devil!

[Buckhunter24]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

I think the guy with 40 or 50 points might not lose much money wise but hes put in time applying and been dissapointed for a long time. I put in for the first time last year and have no problem.saying the guy.thats been.waiting in line longer should get a turn before me

[ctwiggs1]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

I think the guy with 40 or 50 points might not lose much money wise but hes put in time applying and been dissapointed for a long time. I put in for the first time last year and have no problem.saying the guy.thats been.waiting in line longer should get a turn before me

Not really.  It's all still a game of chance.  His odds are significantly higher but the truth is plenty of guys get drawn with 1 point.

[Bigshooter]

I don't really have a problem with the points systems in any states. I think most people are clueless on how different each are. The biggest problem is people's unrealistic expectations of getting a coveted tag. If you want the coveted tags you'll probably never get them. If you want to hunt  you will get tags.

I agree 100% 

[Karl Blanchard]

I can get a tag in every western state for deer or elk every year.  It might not be "the best" tag/unit or with a rifle.  But there are plenty of tags to get every year.  And it's not hard to figure out.
[/quote] 


bigshooter summed up what I was trying to get at. Where there is a will there is a way. The only thing sitting in a guys way from going hunting is himself. It may require learning a different weapon discipline, season, etc but the opportunities are there for the taking.

[idahohuntr]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

I think the guy with 40 or 50 points might not lose much money wise but hes put in time applying and been dissapointed for a long time. I put in for the first time last year and have no problem.saying the guy.thats been.waiting in line longer should get a turn before me

Maybe, but one could make an equally compelling case that youth just getting into hunting should have priority over the guy whose hunted/applied/drawn tags for 40-50 years as well 

One thing all of society can agree on...able bodies white men, 20-60 yrs old...no preference for anything 

[Buckhunter24]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

I think the guy with 40 or 50 points might not lose much money wise but hes put in time applying and been dissapointed for a long time. I put in for the first time last year and have no problem.saying the guy.thats been.waiting in line longer should get a turn before me

Maybe, but one could make an equally compelling case that youth just getting into hunting should have priority over the guy whose hunted/applied/drawn tags for 40-50 years as well 

One thing all of society can agree on...able bodies white men, 20-60 yrs old...no preference for anything 

Yeah copy that on the youth thats a good point

[Curly]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

I think the guy with 40 or 50 points might not lose much money wise but hes put in time applying and been dissapointed for a long time. I put in for the first time last year and have no problem.saying the guy.thats been.waiting in line longer should get a turn before me

Maybe, but one could make an equally compelling case that youth just getting into hunting should have priority over the guy whose hunted/applied/drawn tags for 40-50 years as well 

One thing all of society can agree on...able bodies white men, 20-60 yrs old...no preference for anything 

Sounds racist to me......

[JimmyHoffa]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

I think the guy with 40 or 50 points might not lose much money wise but hes put in time applying and been dissapointed for a long time. I put in for the first time last year and have no problem.saying the guy.thats been.waiting in line longer should get a turn before me

Maybe, but one could make an equally compelling case that youth just getting into hunting should have priority over the guy whose hunted/applied/drawn tags for 40-50 years as well 

One thing all of society can agree on...able bodies white men, 20-60 yrs old...no preference for anything 

Sounds racist to me......

Don't give WDFW anymore ideas.  I could see them making a special category to promote more diversity in hunting.

[Ridgerunner]

The points discussion is an interesting one for sure.  I started back the first year that Washington started theirs, I was probably about 20 back then.  Over the years I’ve drawn and had some amazing hunts on draw tags here in this state as well as others.  I’m fairly deep in a handful of states for a number of different species, Wyoming, Utah, Nevada being the main ones.  I’ve dabbled in a few which I promptly got out of when I saw just how bad the odds really were for the amount of cash I was essentially flushing each year.  As I’ve gotten older I’ve come to the conclusion a guy should really be cashing these things in as soon as he can and just hunt.  Time and life has a way of changing personal priorities, game populations, health, financial picture, any number of things.  To chase some of these high point tags is just foolish imo. 

Only sitting on max points in one state (Wyoming elk) but the other states I’ve switched to trying to draw good tags when the schedule allows.  Another 25 years and I may not even be that interested in hunting some of these critters, but at least if I do it now I’ll have the memories of the hunt, no matter the outcome of the hunt or the size of the critters and really isn’t that what it is all about?

It’s my kids I really feel sorry for, the explosion of the popularity of applying for hunts across the west is amazing, I almost see some guys bragging about their points like they would an animal they shot.  And the truth is that may be their only reward for a lot of them.  Go and make the memories, get out in the field and enjoy every trip and road trip is what I say. 

[idahohuntr]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

I think the guy with 40 or 50 points might not lose much money wise but hes put in time applying and been dissapointed for a long time. I put in for the first time last year and have no problem.saying the guy.thats been.waiting in line longer should get a turn before me

Maybe, but one could make an equally compelling case that youth just getting into hunting should have priority over the guy whose hunted/applied/drawn tags for 40-50 years as well 

One thing all of society can agree on...able bodies white men, 20-60 yrs old...no preference for anything 

Sounds racist to me......

Don't give WDFW anymore ideas.  I could see them making a special category to promote more diversity in hunting.

You guys have just figured out how to end the points system in WA.  Find your most left leaning state legislator and tell them point systems are discriminatory against minority hunters...as historically they had lower likelihood of growing up in hunting families etc...I wish I was joking...I really think this would work.  Although the new system of applying would require race, sex, etc. so your application could be properly sorted

[Bango skank]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

I think the guy with 40 or 50 points might not lose much money wise but hes put in time applying and been dissapointed for a long time. I put in for the first time last year and have no problem.saying the guy.thats been.waiting in line longer should get a turn before me

Maybe, but one could make an equally compelling case that youth just getting into hunting should have priority over the guy whose hunted/applied/drawn tags for 40-50 years as well 

One thing all of society can agree on...able bodies white men, 20-60 yrs old...no preference for anything 

Sounds racist to me......

Don't give WDFW anymore ideas.  I could see them making a special category to promote more diversity in hunting.

You guys have just figured out how to end the points system in WA.  Find your most left leaning state legislator and tell them point systems are discriminatory against minority hunters...as historically they had lower likelihood of growing up in hunting families etc...I wish I was joking...I really think this would work.  Although the new system of applying would require race, sex, etc. so your application could be properly sorted

I would simply self identify as a left handed lesbian midget eskimo albino.  Get drawn every year.

[fishngamereaper]

Leave the points alone..


Until I get my poor man's sheep tag.

[buckfvr]

I know for a fact any and all born in this country is a "native american".  Seems everything wants you to identify as either a minority or a plain ol privileged white person.

[syoungs]

It seems to me that Washington's point system will have to end at some point. When it gets to where people have 40 to 50 points and still can't draw anything, and new hunters have essentially zero chance of drawing any special hunts, I just don't see how it can continue.

The only way it could is if general deer and elk seasons are eliminated, and therefore permit numbers increased by a huge number. But again that would cause a decrease in revenue so it's unlikely to happen.

Moose, sheep, and mountain goat NEVER should have used points. It just can't work mathematically. The point system for those species should be ended immediately.

So are we gonna get rid of the system because guys with 40 to 50 pts can't draw or the guys with no pts can't draw?

Both! 

Anything other than random requires picking winners and losers...and I personally don't see how any particular group can make a strong case they are more deserving of the public's limited wildlife resources.   

I think the guy with 40 or 50 points might not lose much money wise but hes put in time applying and been dissapointed for a long time. I put in for the first time last year and have no problem.saying the guy.thats been.waiting in line longer should get a turn before me

Maybe, but one could make an equally compelling case that youth just getting into hunting should have priority over the guy whose hunted/applied/drawn tags for 40-50 years as well 

One thing all of society can agree on...able bodies white men, 20-60 yrs old...no preference for anything 

Sounds racist to me......

Don't give WDFW anymore ideas.  I could see them making a special category to promote more diversity in hunting.

You guys have just figured out how to end the points system in WA.  Find your most left leaning state legislator and tell them point systems are discriminatory against minority hunters...as historically they had lower likelihood of growing up in hunting families etc...I wish I was joking...I really think this would work.  Although the new system of applying would require race, sex, etc. so your application could be properly sorted

Affirmative tag action.... god I hope they don't stumble across this thread.

[theleo]

They're the devil when you hold onto them long enough to enter no mans land and then actually want to go hunting. They can be a useful tool for guys wanting to plan their hunting 5-10 years in advance.