Capturing Mule deer does by Helo

[Rainier10]

I can tell you in the area that I am familiar with the land is divided up into 20 acre lots, 184 lots, 3,680 acres with 20 miles of roads going through it.  I can drive you around the road and show you 20 or 30 100 yard stretches of road that deer will cross and be near on a regular bases and show you 19.5 miles of road and 2,800 acres that you will rarely see a deer on or near.

Now if someone buys one of those pieces that has that well used corridor through it and starts hunting it, those deer are going to figure it out fast and move elsewhere.  If someone builds a house on it and has dogs fenced in those deer are going to move elsewhere.

50 years ago those corridors were everywhere.  There are getting to be less and less of them for sure and I think it is important to figure out where they still exist and how to preserve them.

[bearpaw]

Rainier10 I appreciate your info and agree that knowledge is important, and as several members have noted, capturing has much less impact in the winter. I would like to hope that some good will come from these studies.

I think the biggest problem is the low level of trust in WDFW. Normally I am supportive of studies but it doesn't seem to do much good in this state. They did a deer study in GMU 105 several years ago, they determined many of the larger mule deer bucks were migrating in from B.C. that's interesting but really changed nothing, predator numbers continue to rise and deer numbers continue to drop.

They also did a cougar study in GMU 105 (by Wielgus), WDFW is still using his crazy conclusions to keep cougar hunting more restricted. meanwhile deer and moose numbers continue to decline.

There was a whitetail study in a small area of GMU 105, they determined whitetail numbers helped support a larger predator population, if whitetail numbers were lowered maybe predator numbers would decline. Ungulates continue to decline and predators are still not properly managed, essentially the predator problem has only worsened!

In Idaho they did studies and determined cougar were eating more elk than wolves and that bear preyed on calves. Idaho initiated 2 bear areas, 2 cougar areas, plus you can trap 5 wolves and hunt 5 wolves. All Idahoans are not in love with IDFG but the difference between IDFG and WDFW is like night and day. In one state predators are being managed heavily and ungulates are doing pretty well, in the other state predators have little management and ungulates are disappearing due to a full scale predator pit!




I heard an interesting comment the other day, it went like this: WDFW initiates a study to satisfy the wildlife commission, by the time the study is complete there are new commissioners and a new director and it's forgotten why the study was even implemented. Wildlife management changes just keep getting kicked down the road and there really is no accountability for WDFW's failure to maximize hunting and fishing opportunities.

[Rainier10]

Thanks Bearpaw, I will continue to update as I get information on this project.

I agree and I am as skeptical as the next guy but always willing to give them the benefit of the doubt out the gates.

The study itself I am not so skeptical of, the results and what they do with them I am.  I agree they do these studies for the commission and depending on the agenda you can present it however you want.

Seahawks thread is a great example, Seahawks are 0-3 in GB playoff games.  Does that mean they are going to be 0-4 after this weekend or does that mean they are due for a win and they will 1-3 alltime?

I think we really need to do an unbiased study on predators in this state but that is a topic for a different thread I suppose.  To do those studies you need money and there is always a shortage of that.

Back on this topic and the funding I just mentioned, I was told that the funding for this project came from the federal government, pennies from heaven that they weren't expecting but had to use in a certain way and this project fell within those parameters.

[Special T]

So most of us are skeptical. WDFW is supposed to manage based off science. GPS data is pretty amazing and revealing. We need these kinds of studies. Why? GPS  studies like this provide raw data that is hard to twist. Only the interpretation can be twisted. I'm happy to hear this is modeled after that Wyoming study. It is a cool and effective one.

Since the department has to managed based on science, what do we do when some established science is from a discredited source like Weilgus?  What science do we have to refute it?  There are studies from other states, there is historical records, but none of these things can refute bad science. We are going to need to fund  & push for good projects.

  It means that sportsmen are going to have to become more involved. Volunteer for an org you belong to. Become the resident expert on an issue and read everything! I think many of us are distracted by the large volume and variety of information to keep on top of to steer the department back in the right direction.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[nwalpineguide]

Mule Deer Studies

In my humble opinion, and from a pathetically ignorant understanding of the ecology and management of mule deer, I suspect there is very good reasons to conduct mule deer studies as frequently as time, personnel and resources allows. This, because the biology of mule deer and their behaviors are relatively well known as compared to other species of wildlife in Washington as well elsewhere.

Adding more knowledge to what’s already known about them simply refines and improves WDFW’s ability to understand and manage mule deer herds as conditions change. Make no mistake, conditions are changing here in Washington with an ever increasing population of humans as well increasing numbers of apex predators, not to mention increasing numbers of and intensification of wild land fires. I’ll just pause there.

Mule deer have relatively large home ranges;  and as is the case in both Okanogan and Chelan counties, a large proportion of these deer herds are seasonally migratory. This requires responsible WDFW resource managers to consider ENTIRE landscapes rather than isolated patches or mosaics of habitat when making informed decisions about the short and long term management of mule deer herds.

Basically, mule deer can be considered an indicator or keystone species which may provide insight to the management of other species. Such as wolves, cougar and grizzly bears. Oh my!

Seasonal Movements

As mentioned already, deer often exhibit migratory behaviors, moving to high elevation sub alpine and alpine habitats and mountain ranges during late spring and early summer to take advantage of seasonally abundant plant foods and retreating to lower elevation ranges during winter. Migratory mule deer can  and do concentrate on traditional winter ranges in large numbers. Moreover they are followed by predators such as coyotes, cougars and wolves to these type locations.

Predation

Predation should never be considered a limiting factor of mule deer without the simultaneous assessment of habitat conditions. Especially in winter when deer are concentrated on winter ranges. Some of which are marginal at best. Good foraging conditions enable deer to spend less time feeding (thus limiting exposure to predators). It is absurd to consider foraging deer and predation upon them as mutually exclusive. They are not.

In future, when grizzly bears, wolves, cougars, coyote and bobcat share the same summer landscape with mule deer the conclusions these studies reveal from the facts might prove… shall we say, rather interesting!

[jackelope]

I don’t really have much of an opinion on this topic because I’m not a biologist or a veterinarian and don’t have the training or knowledge to have a valid opinion on the topic.

Also, I just saw a bunch of photos on social media of several biologists from different states and tribes, a helicopter and some bighorn sheep in Hell’s Canyon doing very similar things  to ensure bighorn sheep survival.  Are they all wrong too ?

[jackelope]

They apparently do it to mountain goats too.

[2MANY]

These studies will reveal things.
Then the deer will do what deer do and man will continue to make his greed driven decisions.
The end.

[Jingles]

gee Wdfw needs a helicopter  and a tranq gun to collar their deer and all that is needed is to walk up and tie a ribbon around it's neck

[2MANY]

Yup.
Current WDFW policy needs to go right in that recycle tote.