collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: Question on camo color/patterns  (Read 2466 times)

Offline 7mmfan

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 4363
  • Location: Marysville
    • https://www.facebook.com/rory.oconnor.9480
Question on camo color/patterns
« on: January 16, 2020, 10:20:25 AM »
There's obviously a ton of different opinions on camo colors/patterns out there, and many say it doesn't matter just pick one and go. Also, many poo poo the new high end camos like Sitka, Kuiu, Firstlite, etc... but there is science behind cervid eyesight and camo visitbility.

I always have tried to pick a camo that I feel best matches the surrounding landscape.  Lately I've been trying to buy more clothing in solid colors, and I'm trying to get away from browns for obvious safety reasons. I've been looking at slate grays as a good happy medium but am worried that it will standout a little to much. It seems from what I've read though that anything in the green/gray range is all just shades of gray to deer and elk. My question is, do you think that the shade of gray matters? Does a darker gray like the Kuiu Vias camo, or the Grays that Kuiu, Firstlite, tone Glacier are using on their puffies will standout from surrounding green vegetation because it is a darker shade of the gray than what the deer views the sagebrush or grass as?

I'll also note that at this point, I exclusively rifle hunt. I'm not worried about close quarters profile breakup that an archery hunter would. I just don't want to be a moving dark spot on the other side of the gully 250 yards from animals that I'm trying to get into shooting position on.

Thoughts?
I hunt, therefore I am.... I fish, therefore I lie.

Offline BULLBLASTER

  • Chris McCarthy
  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 7538
  • Volleyfire brigade
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2020, 10:34:37 AM »
If you are moving they will spot you, if you arenít moving they likely wonít spot you in general rifle ranges. I say the color makes little difference.  :twocents:

Offline Stein

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Posts: 7195
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2020, 10:39:21 AM »
If a guy is wearing an orange vest, it's hard to argue that the pattern on the rest of the clothes matter.  I read that they can see in the blue range, so I try to avoid blue when possible except the times I have shot deer in jeans and they never saw me.

For rifle hunting, I don't think it matters at all, focus on staying still, not on the ridgeline and being behind cover.

Offline 7mmfan

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 4363
  • Location: Marysville
    • https://www.facebook.com/rory.oconnor.9480
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2020, 10:46:13 AM »
If you are moving they will spot you, if you arenít moving they likely wonít spot you in general rifle ranges. I say the color makes little difference.  :twocents:

Both of those have always been my viewpoint and practice. I hunt little in WA anymore so I don't wear an orange vest much.

I guess I'm not really asking on opinions of if I'm moving will they see me, I know they will. It's if someone thinks a darker gray is going to be more visible than a natural color, assuming all they see in those colors is shades of gray? Does the science behind cervid eyesight lead us to believe that these two colors will be viewed essentially the same to a deer? Lets use these 2 as examples.

« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 10:52:16 AM by 7mmfan »
I hunt, therefore I am.... I fish, therefore I lie.

Offline Stein

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Posts: 7195
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2020, 10:51:04 AM »
I think they see movement, not shapes (thus color doesn't matter).  Most people probably have tons of stories of animals that didn't see them in all kinds of clothing as long as they didn't move.  I have experienced this with elk, antelope, and whitetail and mule deer, not to mention small game.

I would get whatever is available at the best price, I don't think it matters at all.

Offline CastleRocker

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2008
  • Posts: 811
  • Location: Castle Rock, WA
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2020, 11:26:23 AM »
A wise man (my Dad), told me long ago..."you can fool their eyes, but you can never fool their nose...and they always believe their nose".

I like certain lighter color camo patterns, as it seems like when I see another hunter all camoed out, they look like a dark blob, especially from a distance.  Marsh patern Sitka is my personal favorite.

All that being said, I've had deer, and elk both walk within feet of me while I'm wearing red and black plaid wool, and the old grey Woolrich bib pants that had the red pinstripes.  Don't know why I still buy expensive camo, but I do.
Work to live, don't live to work.

You can educate away ignorance, sober up drunkenness, but you can't fix stupid.

Offline Mtnwalker

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Longhunter
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2015
  • Posts: 697
  • Location: Selah
  • Groups: NRA RMEF MDF
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2020, 12:13:15 PM »
A wise man (my Dad), told me long ago..."you can fool their eyes, but you can never fool their nose...and they always believe their nose".

I like certain lighter color camo patterns, as it seems like when I see another hunter all camoed out, they look like a dark blob, especially from a distance.  Marsh patern Sitka is my personal favorite.

All that being said, I've had deer, and elk both walk within feet of me while I'm wearing red and black plaid wool, and the old grey Woolrich bib pants that had the red pinstripes.  Don't know why I still buy expensive camo, but I do.

 :yeah:   

Offline BULLBLASTER

  • Chris McCarthy
  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+13)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 7538
  • Volleyfire brigade
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2020, 12:14:27 PM »
I like to buy solids and different camo colors. Mostly because Iíd rather not be all matchy matchy. Sometimes I still end up in all the same color but oh well

Offline idaho guy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 1771
  • Location: hayden
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2020, 12:33:05 PM »
A wise man (my Dad), told me long ago..."you can fool their eyes, but you can never fool their nose...and they always believe their nose".

I like certain lighter color camo patterns, as it seems like when I see another hunter all camoed out, they look like a dark blob, especially from a distance.  Marsh patern Sitka is my personal favorite.

All that being said, I've had deer, and elk both walk within feet of me while I'm wearing red and black plaid wool, and the old grey Woolrich bib pants that had the red pinstripes.  Don't know why I still buy expensive camo, but I do.

red and black plaid wool is the original digital camo! It is what I mostly wear rifle hunting it hasn't let me down yet! I was archery hunting with a friend and he was coming to me in the brush wearing Kuiu camo and I could see the brush moving but couldn't really see him so I vote for that pattern in the thick stuff. In the end I don't think it matters  much but depends on the wind and your movement. 

Offline 7mmfan

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 4363
  • Location: Marysville
    • https://www.facebook.com/rory.oconnor.9480
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2020, 12:51:36 PM »
A wise man (my Dad), told me long ago..."you can fool their eyes, but you can never fool their nose...and they always believe their nose".

I like certain lighter color camo patterns, as it seems like when I see another hunter all camoed out, they look like a dark blob, especially from a distance.  Marsh patern Sitka is my personal favorite.

All that being said, I've had deer, and elk both walk within feet of me while I'm wearing red and black plaid wool, and the old grey Woolrich bib pants that had the red pinstripes.  Don't know why I still buy expensive camo, but I do.

 :yeah:

This is the point I'm getting at. What we as people see is starkly different than what the animals we hunt see. I see a guy in Kuiu Vias across the canyon against a light background and to me I think an animal should be able to see him from a mile away. The SCIENCE behind cervid eyesight says differently though. Does that gray that stands out to humans so vividly disappear into a sea of other gray tones and shades for a deer or elk? Should I confidently walk into the woods in a color that per human eyesight blends into nothing around me, with the confidence that deer and elk see it as basically the same color as any other tree or rock or bush on the mountain?

I'm not asking how to blend in, or what will hide me while moving, I know they can see me while moving. I know I can't fool their nose. What does the science say regarding gray scale eyesight and what is your opinion on how the translates into hunting camo/color patterns.
I hunt, therefore I am.... I fish, therefore I lie.

Offline theleo

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Posts: 1170
  • Location: Kennewick
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2020, 01:05:21 PM »
If you are moving they will spot you, if you arenít moving they likely wonít spot you in general rifle ranges. I say the color makes little difference.  :twocents:

Both of those have always been my viewpoint and practice. I hunt little in WA anymore so I don't wear an orange vest much.

I guess I'm not really asking on opinions of if I'm moving will they see me, I know they will. It's if someone thinks a darker gray is going to be more visible than a natural color, assuming all they see in those colors is shades of gray? Does the science behind cervid eyesight lead us to believe that these two colors will be viewed essentially the same to a deer? Lets use these 2 as examples.
Moving through sagebrush and dried grass, you'll look like a black bear. Sitting 100+ yards away looking at them through a scope, you'll look like a rock on the hillside. Move accordingly.

Offline Stein

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2013
  • Posts: 7195
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2020, 01:28:46 PM »
I think there is way too much attention paid to "shades of grey", particularly the notion that things disappear.  We can watch black and white TV where there is no color and still know exactly what everything is.  I don't think they make out items by what color they are.  I think that smell is their number one way to tell what something is, probably the number 2, 3, 4 and 5 as well.  Noise is also a big thing as well as movement far above what something actually looks like.

Pretty much anything a coyote size or bigger is a threat, I think they flee because there is danger well before they ponder whether that is a guy, bear, wolf or whatever.

What do I know though?  My guess is as good as anyone else's.  All I know is that the people really leading the charge on camo patterns are the ones that charge the most for their pattern and those they pay to be spokespeople.  It's so great and ground breaking that they dump it in a year or two for something else that looks pretty much the same but just different enough that your old stuff doesn't match.

Offline 7mmfan

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2008
  • Posts: 4363
  • Location: Marysville
    • https://www.facebook.com/rory.oconnor.9480
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2020, 01:41:00 PM »
Sure, we all know their nose is number 1, and like you said probably 2-5 as well. And I agree that anything large and moving is deemed a threat almost by default. I've seen deer spook other deer, and elk spook elk, and vice versa. The deer I killed this year ran after I had been in the vicinity for over a minute, mostly screened. I had the wind, but my guess is he saw just enough of me in close proximity to him that he got nervous and bailed. I don't think he ever actually knew what I was though, just didn't like something big near him that he couldn't positively identify.

So I guess the consensus is that despite gray scale vision, a darker shade of gray is still going to stand out to them, especially when movement is thrown in. A guy is probably better off for overall concealment going with a base color that is close to the color of the surrounding landscape.
I hunt, therefore I am.... I fish, therefore I lie.

Offline Jingles

  • Political Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 2295
  • Location: 98862
  • Life is short so enjoy it to the MAX
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2020, 02:22:02 PM »
I wish one of the camo makers would come out with a snowy brush pattern, that was reasonably priced, for those of us that spend more time in the woods in the winter than other seasons.
HMC/USN/RET
1969 -1990

Offline OltHunter

  • Non-Hunting & Covid-19 Topics
  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 235
Re: Question on camo color/patterns
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2020, 02:29:08 PM »
https://elknetwork.com/what-you-see-isnt-what-that-elk-sees-eye-of-the-beholder/

I think this should help answer some questions, best I've found.  Hope it can help.

Overall I don't think it matters if you blend in color wise to your surroundings, you need something that can break out your outline farther away and not reflect blue/yellow/UV rays.

Really according to this, patterns like ASAT are the best since they try to limit that "blob" appearance have large coarse areas of breakouts.  Kuiu and First Lite are better choices due to the larger areas of breakout and less fine detail.  Sitka i think is more blob like closer up.  Still, i'm not sure if it matters 200+ yards for rifle hunters, considering you have 400 sq inches of blob showing up.

Those super fine leaf like camos like Realtree effectively are great for us to look at and hard to see someone up close, blob like to deer, not as good.

Far away, everything will appear as a blob, that is why limiting movement is the most effective.

If you use something that enhances UV like detergents or reflects UV, that is going to be bad.  So no shiny stuff.  This is also an unmentioned benefit of wool products vs poly/synthetic fabrics.  I think Kryptek uses some type of cold press camo printing or something like that, which supposedly limits any dye reflection as dyes can reflect.

So in a nut shell, prior posts aren't trying to be funny or something, it really doesn't matter.  Especially at 200+ yards, pick what you like. Deer will see anything pretty much the same as long as it's not blue or yellow and not reflecting UV light.

I don't like black (looks like bear), brown tops (looks like a deer) only for safety from other "hunters".

I prefer darker camo only cause it won't look so terrible when dirty!  I do like that FL gray though, and will be tempted to pick one up in the uncompaghre 2.0 on a pro discount.

If you are a bow hunter, I think you can get some benefit to a better camo pattern that follows what was mentioned.  If you get spotted the deer/elk can't make out what you are as quickly as someone in an all gray jumpsuit which may buy you some more time or they lose interest and don't spook.  But most likely no matter what, they are keying in your movements and smell.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Grouse hunters better get informed by Limhangerslayer
[Yesterday at 10:32:47 PM]


Hancock ? by SGTDuffman
[Yesterday at 10:31:35 PM]


What is the biggest pile of scat youve seen. by bornhunter
[Yesterday at 10:03:04 PM]


Bugling success! by bornhunter
[Yesterday at 09:51:03 PM]


Nooksack Draw!!!! by jae
[Yesterday at 09:50:18 PM]


Be Careful In The Backcountry by LDennis24
[Yesterday at 09:50:08 PM]


Blood trail by jae
[Yesterday at 09:47:01 PM]


High hunt 2020 by teanawayslayer
[Yesterday at 09:42:54 PM]


Hawk hunting squirrel by Goshawk
[Yesterday at 09:39:11 PM]


3 Mexican wolf pups cross-fostered into an Arizona pack by teanawayslayer
[Yesterday at 09:35:57 PM]


People on Cams by Goshawk
[Yesterday at 09:35:09 PM]


One less Pend Oreille county deer killer in the woods. by Wanttohuntmore
[Yesterday at 09:15:13 PM]


FS: Eberlestock Blue Widow Pack by ryanfam
[Yesterday at 09:12:09 PM]


Officially out of wall space by CaNINE
[Yesterday at 09:05:12 PM]


Hunting clarification by Naches Sportsman
[Yesterday at 08:57:11 PM]


Archery hunt area around Snohomish, King, or Pierce County help by Tr33ofLif3
[Yesterday at 08:44:29 PM]


NW Chapter Washington Waterfowl Association by Special T
[Yesterday at 08:35:26 PM]


2020 Deer post em here by BLDtraLR
[Yesterday at 08:24:58 PM]


17 Mach 2 by Boss .300 winmag
[Yesterday at 07:43:38 PM]


Potholes smoke? by bassquatch
[Yesterday at 07:19:20 PM]