Is it time to make Bow Seasons same rules as Rifle and Muzzy?

[Stein]

If this state knew how to manage game we wouldnt even be debating any of this. They are so over reactionary. " cant kill any cows for years then there is too many and kill them all" Same with Does after fires etc, Look at the Methow, Entiat etc

Lets not blame the user groups, its the game department that has their head up their a$$

  ding ding, we have a winner!

   The battle is not in here guys.

[JimmyHoffa]

Archery is not the same opportunity as rifle.  Ive had to watch a number of real nice animals walk out of my life because i didnt have a shot i considered ethical with a bow, but would have been able to kill with my rifle extremely easily.  It is far far harder to kill an animal with a bow than it is with a gun.  Hence longer seasons and additional opportunity.

Exactly.  Unbelievable sometimes how people minimize the difference in difficulty.  Even Muzzy is so much easier than archery when it comes to getting a shot on an animal.

The weapon is harder, and under similar conditions--the hunting strategies much more limited.  Since the timber company permits and more people going archery, the other seasons are getting much more difficult.  Finding a legal bull in muzzy now (1 1/2 weeks after being chased by the bugling army) is getting harder and harder.  Also since WDFW opened up so many additional early muzzy units, the rifle guys aren't getting nearly the same experience as a few years ago.  Couldn't imagine someone trying to hunt elk on public land with archery during the rifle season.

[buckfvr]

Ya,  keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.

[huntnfmly]

Ya,  keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.

[pianoman9701]

Ya,  keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.

This isn't the fault of the DFW. We all make our own season/method choices for whatever reason(s). When you're suggesting or requesting changes to another group's seasons, you're going to create a divide; it's one side proposing increased regulation on another. Hunters are some of their own worst enemies and this is precisely why we're losing our privileges. We can't stick together to save our own heritage.

[snake]

In a state that believes lighted nocks are an unfair advantage, explaining "equal" opportunity will be difficult.

[buckfvr]

Ya,  keep pitting user group against user group.....divide and conquer.

This isn't the fault of the DFW. We all make our own season/method choices for whatever reason(s). When you're suggesting or requesting changes to another group's seasons, you're going to create a divide; it's one side proposing increased regulation on another. Hunters are some of their own worst enemies and this is precisely why we're losing our privileges. We can't stick together to save our own heritage.

 

[Pegasus]

For years WDFW has reduced the benefit of bow hunting in favor of muzzie and modern hunters. Seasons used to be longer and the start and finish days were changed that lessened your chances to fill your tag. We used to be hunting elk in the first week of October. Deer season opens so early in September that you can hunt in a T-shirt and shorts. Many areas for late and damage hunts were given to modern firearm hunters or eliminated. Seasons were based upon kill ratios and days in the field. Those have been altered to the benefit of muzzie and modern firearm hunters.

[ghosthunter]

I do t believe we can continue hunting cows under the current conditions that exist. Regardless of what you think the problem is or where to place the blame.

I know several camps that won’t even go elk hunting unless they have a cow tag. Our camp bought all the muzzy tags and apps and never set afoot in elk country. Because it just wasn’t worth it without a cow or bull tag.

Since the state started dumping cow tags on the table years ago, the hunting for spikes has gone in the dumpster. Five hunters in camp in 2016,17,18 all had harvested elk in their lives,all experienced hunters in their 50_60s. Not one saw a spike. Big bulls even cows no problem to see.

All elk come from cows, less cows , less elk. Cows are what’s needed not big bulls.

Ya we could pick up a bow, but I don’t think the weapons makes a difference.

It’s no sure thing with any weapon.

Something has to give. Predators,tribes, management are only going to get worse.

Draws for cow by all user groups and reduced cow tags or No cow tags for anyone.

Regardless of your weapon of choice If you never see a Spike. Really doesn’t matter what weapon you have, you have no opportunities.

[pianoman9701]

GH, I respect your opinions very much. I would like to see data to backup your assumptions and ideas, however. A blanket ban of taking OTC cows may hurt the animals you're trying to help, depending on the situation on the ground in any specific area. Could there be areas where limiting the take of cows and calves would be beneficial to the population? Sure. Are there areas where population levels need to be controlled by taking cows? I'm sure there are. Blanket solutions often have unintended consequences. We need to work with data, individual conditions, etc. before making regulation changes.

[ghosthunter]

GH, I respect your opinions very much. I would like to see data to backup your assumptions and ideas, however. A blanket ban of taking OTC cows may hurt the animals you're trying to help, depending on the situation on the ground in any specific area. Could there be areas where limiting the take of cows and calves would be beneficial to the population? Sure. Are there areas where population levels need to be controlled by taking cows? I'm sure there are. Blanket solutions often have unintended consequences. We need to work with data, individual conditions, etc. before making regulation changes.

Nope no data.
Just  my own observation.

In a state with one of the fastest growing populations in the nation, it is only going to get worse.  No doubt there may be areas that have too many cows. But for the most part in my opinion we are over harvesting cows. And that in turn is limiting Spikes.
Any adverse effect of having too many cows in a area could be addressed a lot quicker than no spikes can be addressed.

[hughjorgan]

Ghosthunter,

Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.

2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145,  umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?

[ribka]

Do you spend time in all the eastern elk units year round? Or just a week in camp in one area of an elk unit you have hunted for years to come up with your opinion

GH, I respect your opinions very much. I would like to see data to backup your assumptions and ideas, however. A blanket ban of taking OTC cows may hurt the animals you're trying to help, depending on the situation on the ground in any specific area. Could there be areas where limiting the take of cows and calves would be beneficial to the population? Sure. Are there areas where population levels need to be controlled by taking cows? I'm sure there are. Blanket solutions often have unintended consequences. We need to work with data, individual conditions, etc. before making regulation changes.

Nope no data.
Just  my own observation.

In a state with one of the fastest growing populations in the nation, it is only going to get worse.  No doubt there may be areas that have too many cows. But for the most part in my opinion we are over harvesting cows. And that in turn is limiting Spikes.
Any adverse effect of having too many cows in a area could be addressed a lot quicker than no spikes can be addressed.

[ribka]

there's your answer

Ghosthunter,

Like others have pointed out the WDFW allowed too high of a harvest through special permits.

2015 for example saw a harvest of antlerless elk in the quilomene 163, naneum 171, manastash 145,  umtanum 166, little naches 123, and cowiche 128. These were all special permit and a large amount of cows were taken by modern and muzzy in the Yakima and ellensburg areas. Archery harvest has been consistent until the years where too many special permits were issued. The herd is below objective now because of the WDFW, not because archery hunters. Archery hunters have lost days in the field, they have lost special permits opportunities and they have lost opportunities now to harvest elk. Archery hunters take of cows have been cut in half since the over harvest by special permit. So why should archery take it in the shorts again because WDFW did a poor job of managing the resource?

[zwickeyman]

In ghosthunters defense

He is right about the over harvest of cows and the influence of Spikes. His disdain is just directed in the wrong direction. I get it though