Anyone know water/well pumps?

[carpsniperg2]

I am trying to figure out a water transfer pump to get water out of a well without power.

The well is about 70' feet deep and I keep seeing two types of ratings. suction ft and a max head ft.

Can anyone help me figure out the difference. One of the pumps I am looking at is max head 98ft and a suction ft of 26.

thanks in advance

[cbond3318]

A lot of variables in pump system design but those terms are the vertical height in elevation a pump can draw water from a source below the pump and the vertical height a pump can push water above the pump . Remember it’s not distance but vertical ft.

[carpsniperg2]

Ok so max head is like pushing up hill from the pump and suction is drawing it up from below. Think it’s going to be hard to find one that can pull up from 70’ dang.

[cbond3318]

Have you looked at Deep Well Submersible pumps? If you have a 4” or greater well casing that may be the cats meow.....

[Magnum_Willys]

No pump can suck up over 33 feet so you have to put the pump in the well. 

[carpsniperg2]

Have you looked at Deep Well Submersible pumps? If you have a 4” or greater well casing that may be the cats meow.....

Could be something to that. I just need something that can be portable. That I can run from a genny.

No pump can suck up over 33 feet so you have to put the pump in the well. 

I would love to but we have done that before and freaking people mess with it any chance they get. We have had pumps pulled and generators taken and anything we leave over there gets taken. From firewood to chains to wires. They take it all being out in the middle of no where no one worries about being caught. So tired of people walking off with stuff. Really sucks!!! So hoping for something portable that can hook up as needed for a water source when springs dry up etc.

[Henrydog]

So this is a "resource protection well" with no power to it, just the hole with 4" inch.  If there is power available a 3 stage submersible would be the best.  Do you know the static level and what the draw down is?  If the well has a quick recovery and a high static level you might be about to have a foot pump with a hose powered by a big genset.

[trophyhunt]

Have you looked at Deep Well Submersible pumps? If you have a 4” or greater well casing that may be the cats meow.....

Could be something to that. I just need something that can be portable. That I can run from a genny.

No pump can suck up over 33 feet so you have to put the pump in the well. 

I would love to but we have done that before and freaking people mess with it any chance they get. We have had pumps pulled and generators taken and anything we leave over there gets taken. From firewood to chains to wires. They take it all being out in the middle of no where no one worries about being caught. So tired of people walking off with stuff. Really sucks!!! So hoping for something portable that can hook up as needed for a water source when springs dry up etc.

You sure have some a hole neighbors, what town is this in or by, need to know so I don't buy a place there.

[Henrydog]

Another idea for no power...an old school handpump https://www.bisonpumps.com/

[carpsniperg2]

Thanks guys it’s a good well with good flow.
The problem is it’s not by any town about 25 miles from the nearest and a good bit from any houses. So prime picking for scum.

[cbond3318]

Maybe you could drop in a submersible and  cap the well head with a scumbag proof box that contained cord end and hose connection?

[carpsniperg2]

That might be my best option. Be the cheapest option to loose.
Most these people are coming from the valley and no one local would be my guess. They usually just fire up a genny or have battery powered grinders and cut the locks and drive in to load wood or steal what ever catches there eye. I hate thieves.

[baker5150]

Maybe you could drop in a submersible and  cap the well head with a scumbag proof box that contained cord end and hose connection?

 

Carve out an old stump and set it on top of the well head to hide it.

[carpsniperg2]

Would work great but when my father had them put in he had a concrete pad poured and a small metal shed built around it. Use to have a genny in it that a guy could just go add gas and flip on. Well times have changed and not even a 2' piece of chain is safe over there. The well is about 80/100 yards from a main road so everyone dirty that's looking for something to steal can see it.  When aluminum prices get high they start hacking up our wheel lines and main lines. When we haul wood over to our hunting camp they cut in and steal it. Lots of top notch scum out there. My father has given up after loosing a few gennys then a few pumps. There is a natural spring that feeds for about 6 months then goes about dry.

[buckfvr]

[/quote]You sure have some a hole neighbors, what town is this in or by, need to know so I don't buy a place there.
[/quote]


Its called rural america......anywhere people merely eeek out an existance, common in wa.

[LDennis24]

What's the inside diameter of the well casing?

[birddogdad]

lift is the suction max, i think normally in feet.
head is the discharge pump can over come (should be 44# / 100 feet of depth for math to overcome.)

suction lift as stated is probably key here, you can only overcome just so much lift to get the pump "sucking". Discharge or head to the rest of the way out of the well must be overcome.

been a long time since i looked at a hand pump well (no power). There would be lift specs associated with this i would assume.

[KFhunter]

lift is the suction max, i think normally in feet.
head is the discharge pump can over come (should be 44# / 100 feet of depth for math to overcome.)

suction lift as stated is probably key here, you can only overcome just so much lift to get the pump "sucking". Discharge or head to the rest of the way out of the well must be overcome.

been a long time since i looked at a hand pump well (no power). There would be lift specs associated with this i would assume.

they put the pump at the bottom in a deep well hand pump, so there's no suction concerns at all.  It pushes the water up the pipe.   

[HikerHunter]

Just to confirm and add a little to what others have said:
- "Suction ft" is what the pump can lift from the water level below it (sometimes called upstream of the pump). This is from the water surface to the suction of the pump. You mention the well is 70 feet. If that is the water level, then you would have to place the pump at least 70 ft - 26 ft = 44 feet below grade, but you should put it deeper because you will draw the water level down during use and the pump will operate much better. I'd recommend a submersible pump as deep as you can.
- As noted previously, normal pumps can't pull more than a full vacuum (~33 feet), so you will have to drop a pump at least part way into the hole, but a submersible pump is usually used.
- "Max head ft" is the pressure the pump can produce downstream of the pump. Note that you also have to figure the depth below grade that you place the pump into this value. Using the pump you are looking at for example, if you place it 60 feet below grade, then the pump will produce 98 ft - 60 ft = 38 ft (16 psi) at grade. Unless you are just filling jugs, you probably won't be happy with that low of pressure.
- You should look into a pitless adapter for your wellhead, which would be a secure permanent pump installation that would also secure it from people throwing stupid stuff down your well. You could run your electrical to a small vault with locking lid for your use when you arrive. Use rigid metal conduit for the short piece of exposed conduit.
- As you're already aware, there is no way to completely secure it, so whatever you install, don't invest more than you're willing to lose!

[carpsniperg2]

Thanks guys I appreciate the info.

I’m thinking it’s 4” inside diameter.

[LDennis24]

I think your problem is going to be finding a pump to fit down inside a 4" shaft. You can always buy black polypipe and plumb it down into the bottom with a filter head on it. Then put a pump with a priming tank at the top and you prime it( meaning open the top of the pump or tank at the top and fill it with water and close it then fire the pump up and it's not having to draw water from 70 ft down. This would have to be repeated every time you started to draw water unless you could seal the casing and the pipe stayed primed all the time.

[Hillbilly Zen]

I’ve heard of a lot of property damage and theft over the years but never seen anyone take a submersible well pump!  Thats motivated.  I might try terminating the wire right at the well cap, spot weld the cap bolts on, and weld a box over the terminated end.  Bring your genny and cord with you.  Thieves could still get in but they would have to cut the lock off the top box and then cut the cap bolts completely off with decent tools for a bit of wire and a used pump.  What county is this?  You seem heavily targeted even for a remote sight with no people present.  Sounds like repeat dirtbags not random drive by. A good set of inexpensive concealed Game cameras and a chat with the sheriff may be money well spent!  Good luck

[birdshooter1189]

Here's a couple more creative ideas if you put in another submersible pump:

If you can cut off and seal the well head below the surface of the concrete pad and then pour a shallow concrete cover over it. 

Then you could either:

1.  drill another hole through the pad nearby and put a false well head that appears to be already robbed/empty to make it appear that the well has already been scavenged and that there is nothing good to look for. 

2.  Put a sign or etch in concrete the words: WELL DECOMMISSIONED.  for some false advertising to discourage thievery.

[LDennis24]

    

If you could just submerge a basic well pump with a pipe to the top of the casing you would be fine but you would want to invest in some security measures it sounds like

Kind of a simple method for priming and purging air but you can set one up a number of ways with some strategic placement of valves and a tank.

[birdshooter1189]

Searching (3" well pump) brought up lots of options on ebay. ~$150-$250  A cheap off-brand one might be preferred in a well where there is high risk of it being stolen.

[birddogdad]

lift is the suction max, i think normally in feet.
head is the discharge pump can over come (should be 44# / 100 feet of depth for math to overcome.)

suction lift as stated is probably key here, you can only overcome just so much lift to get the pump "sucking". Discharge or head to the rest of the way out of the well must be overcome.

been a long time since i looked at a hand pump well (no power). There would be lift specs associated with this i would assume.

OP was asking how to do this without power....

they put the pump at the bottom in a deep well hand pump, so there's no suction concerns at all.  It pushes the water up the pipe.   

maybe this?  https://www.bisonpumps.com/product/standard-deep-well-pump/  one i looked at spec sheet said good to pump 300ft well water...

[huntingfool7]

@birddogdad  A Bison pump will cost bout $2,500. before shipping.

[Reidus]

just buy a cheap submersible well pump for like $100 and some poly tube. Hardwire the pump to a 120V plug. Lower the pump down the well with a rope and plug it in to generator to run it. Pull the pump and roll up the tube and wire when you leave.

[Reidus]

https://www.amazon.com/Hallmark-Industries-MA0343X-4-Submersible-Stainless/dp/B00NTT2JSU/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=submersible+well+pump&qid=1583274663&sr=8-6

[2MANY]

As long as you are daylighting the water-flow and not trying to get pressure the above plan will work easily.
Keep it up off the bottom.

[Reidus]

yes, might want to get a little different pump curve if you're trying to maintain a pressure like hook up to RV, but if you're going to do that you probably want a pressure switch, tank and such otherwise the pump will probably deadhead.   

[carpsniperg2]

I’m thinking that might be a good option. I was just wondering after it’s lowered if it might get hung up trying to pull it back up the pipe on the lip of the pipe, if it drops outside the pipe? If that makes sense.

Game cameras just get taken. There is zero cover to hide them within like 75’ around it. Just scab ground with a few sage plants. It’s very isolated but has main road right by it that has plenty of traffic through the day and night but not constant like some times you might se a car every 10 mins other times a hr. It’s lame I kid y’all not. We had a couple 2’ chunks of heavy chain holding a gate *censored*. They took those and left the gate open! Over a couple chunks of chain!

[lokidog]

I didn't read through, is the well 70' deep to the bottom or 70' down to the water? If bottom, you only to to lift from the surface of the water.

[lokidog]

If you go submersible pump, be sure to get a two wire as you need a coontrol box to run a three wire pump. I've been running a 2-wire for four or five years now and it is going strong.

[carpsniperg2]

pretty sure its right at 70 to the water level.