Turkeys near lake kachess

[bowhunterforever]

I was coming home from the coast today and saw a flock of turkeys between lake kachess and lake easton, closer to kachess though. It was 4 hens but there could have been more. They were standing on the side of I-90 so i didn't get to look that long. Did any of you guys know that there were turkeys in that area and are the Rio's or meriam's?

[fishunt247]

Merriams, from the Teanaway plants in the late 90's probably, just the population expanded and some moved there I guess. Don't think there is many up that way, but who knows

[wackmaster]

They are always hanging around there

[yelp]

They have spread out there are more than just those..I have buddies that hunt elk and see turkeys all the time..

[Gobble]

That flock has spread a great deal since its introduction. Small flocks have even made their way over Snoqualmie Pass and down to North Bend

[yelp]

Are the turkeys in North Bend Merriams?

[Gobble]

I would imagine, I don't think there are many but I know a few people (my dad for one ) that have seen them from the top of the pass al the way to the bottom (westside)

[fishunt247]

I would imagine they are merriams too. My uncle saw a gobbler just east of north bend last year off of 90. How close are the closest eastern to North Bend?

[turkeydancer]

These birds are just heading west to hide with their eastern cousins during the season.   

[Tom Tamer]

From what we were told was they were Merriam' the school fo thought from the NWTF at one time was that the Merriam's would crest over and take over Western Wa. Grain of salt with that though? Wac, your thoughts on that one? that's just what I heard.....I saw a dead hen on I-90 at cabin creek two years ago opening weekend. Always hearing about them all around N.B. Last winter in Hobart I saw four hens, but one was white( Albino or farm bird?) anyway I thought they may be wild because they were preened so much better than any domestic I've seen....
 Another one I saw was across the street from the Black Diamond gas station, a lone hen standing in a guys yard. A feelow that helps at our Jakes event seen it too and stopped at the farm house and asked about it. They'd never seen her before she stayed for four days then left?? WIld or domestic hoping wild that would cut down my drive time from 2 hours to 2 minutes

[Wacenturion]

Probability is the expansion of birds from up on top...Merriams.  But then again it could be any number of things.....game farm releases by someone in that area, expansion of a pocket of easterns from Snohomish....Pierce...who knows. 

Best thing is observation by someone knowledgable enough who knows what they are looking at....or al least a educated guess and some pictures as far as subspecies.  The way the birds react.....standing around in someone's yard might lead me to believe that it was somewhat domesticated...game farm stock...perhaps.

I only am pointing out possibilities....anyone's guess at this point without a credible sighting of what they are subspecies wise.  I would not venture a guess without knowing more.  Any pictures from anyone....anyone actually pull off and watch for awhile...anything that could narrow it down?

As far as the NWTF saying that Merriam's would crest over and take over western Washington.....what crystal ball are they looking into....lol.  God I just love the unscientific reasoning that that statement reaks of.  If that were the case then ask yourself why SW Washington has not been "taken over" by Merriams expanding from Klickitat County.... probably because.....oh I know ........they have only had like 49 years to do so....lol. 
 
The reason is that when they expanded westward from Klickitat to say Carson...you know where one begins to sense you're back in western Washington because of all the green trees and green brush and green everything from all the rain......they stopped there because they don't like it....plain and simple....not Merriams habitat.

[turkeydancer]

Agree WaCent ... Merriam's are still a pine forest bird, and that type habitat peters out as you leave the crest heading west.

[Tom Tamer]

Wacent said...

As far as the NWTF saying that Merriam's would crest over and take over western Washington.....what crystal ball are they looking into....lol.  God I just love the unscientific reasoning that that statement reaks of.  If that were the case then ask yourself why SW Washington has not been "taken over" by Merriams expanding from Klickitat County.... probably because.....oh I know ........they have only had like 49 years to do so....lol. 

 I agree with that statement more.....the way it was said did sounded like just hypothetical to me also. I was told by NWTF RD at the time they had a picture of one in Issaquah that had the markings of a Merriam's but then why was that picture never publicized? The ones I mentioned seeing around other than the white phase  all had buff tails looked very much like Merriams but then again so do a lot of Domestics. If you look at the harvest report the 454 ( Issaquah) unit always has a kill report of around 10. But then again the question is Wild or Farm........yet to be determined. Should we all hold our breath for either WDFW or NWTF to make the call

[Ray]

I know there's turks over there in that region. Saw a photo of one a guy harvested with his longbow last year (a friend of a friend).

[Wacenturion]

If one looks at the recent turkey harvest reports for say 2004-2007, the breakdown for P40 NW, the largest portion of the harvest occurred in GMU 410 Island, and GMU 454 Issaquah, and GMU 407 Northsound

Issaquah....9 birds....2004
                4 birds....2007

Island........3 birds.... 2005
                1 bird......2006
                1 bird......2007

Northsound.6 birds.....2005
                3 birds.....2006


The Issaquah GMU runs from Everitt to Duvall, to Fall City  and south then back west the north to point of orgin.  A portion of Snohomish county is in 454.  Easterns were released near Arlington in the late 90's....one possibility.  Another...with all those people living in King County...I would tend to think that there may be one or two helpful types that may have released some game farm stock....happens quite frequently.  Last....Merriams from up above expanding and coming over and down.

All possibilities....oh...one more....expansion of easterns from Pierce...possible also...birds have had lots of years to do so and 20 years ago eastern escapees from NW Trek were reported outside the park......as well as expanding wild released Easterns in Thurston (near Pierce) from the mid 80's on. 


GMU 407 Northsound is Whatcom and Snohomish counties....part of which includes the Arlington area where a couple release of Easterns were made.

Gmu 410 Islands...is just that..San Juans.  Those birds have been there for years and years.  From Eastern turkeys raised years ago...50's-60's on WDFW..then Dept. of Game game farms and released on one or two of the islands.  There were also a few Merriam's that were caught in Klickitat and also released way back then.  For the most part...a nuisance problem....too tame.  For all intents and purposes they appear to have dominate eastern traits...coloration etc....unless that has changed. 


Although they count as an Eastern if harvested.....they are not even in the same class as our real easterns....lol.
               

[Tom Tamer]

Wacnt siad..

All possibilities....oh...one more....expansion of easterns from Pierce...possible also...birds have had lots of years to do so and 20 years ago eastern escapees from NW Trek were reported outside the park......as well as expanding wild released Easterns in Thurston (near Pierce) from the mid 80's on. 

 That could be a possibility there, I know my Dad( Logger) had seen birds right acoss from the Tanawax golf course about five years ago, and another newspaper article had spotted some off 8th ave outside of Roy.... Plus theres the talk of some bieng on Ft. Lewis? Did they plant any on base?  Or I figured that could be some wanderers from the Johnson creek flock? But I think it's feral birds let go by someone up in the Issaquah

[Wacenturion]

Those easterns in the Johnson Creek area spread fairly quickly in different directions, including onto the southern parts of Ft. Lewis (the area of the base one drives through between Ranier and Lacey).  To give you an idea how quickly they can expand, there were reports of turkey sightings just south of Lake Sinclair and the Yelm highway within several years of the initial Johnston Creek releases.

Granted some of those sightings might well be wandering birds rather than actual expansion, but in the case of the Lake Sinclair area birds, there were also sightings in several areas all the way back south to Ranier/Tenino at the same time.

[Tom Tamer]

I know there just outside of Yelm now, Pop had them right behind his house last year but developers moved in and seemed to run them off, The one story I heard years back and you may or may not have heard this or can debunk it, was during one of the Bunker creek releases they radio collared a hen...the story goes the day after the release they picked her signal up in Vader.....the following day they picked it up again back at the release site? I've often wondered about that area of the fort, lot's of good looking territory back there.

[Wacenturion]

There were radio collars put on a number of birds in different areas way back then.  In fact bib mount transmitters were first used on turkeys right here in Washington.  That was a take off of them being used sucessfully on prarrie grouse. 

A whole lot easier on the bird and their eventual survivability.  Any time you put anything on a bird such as radio gear it impacts the birds ability to make it....mortality goes way up, therefore the use of bib mounts.  They are cut to just slide over the birds neck tightly and just hang down in front of the neck, kind of like the plastic thingie you hang on your motel door...you know......do not disturb.  Of course most states still use wing mount collars....personally I wouldn't waste a transmitter or a bird like that....dead bird 7 out of ten times.

Not sure about what you say someone described as happening on a bunker creek bird.  The closest to that that I recall is that there was a Bunker Creek or Lincoln Creek bird did end up fairly fast in the area above Doty and settled in.  Thats not to say it didn't happen....there were some senior vounteers that were providing assistance by doing some monoritoring work back then.  Some of those birds (a couple) did indeed move out from the release site and eventually return......but generally not in a two day stint.
   

[Tom Tamer]

Good to know that's why I came to you with that question, the story probably started out as the Doty bird story you told, but like most all fish stories( except for mine  ) they get longer with time.

[gasman]

I was bow hunting off 8th street neer Fort Lewis and see a bunch of birds abut 5 years ago. Did not give it much thought untill some one mention Fort Lewis.

[WABONEHNTR]

I am from North Bend and have seen a lot of the turkeys there.  Most of those turkeys were released and they are merriams.  99% of them came from kettle falls area.  Seems that most of them hang out in the houses where they are getting fed.  You can see them along the highway also but mostly in the houses. 

[Wacenturion]

I am from North Bend and have seen a lot of the turkeys there.  Most of those turkeys were released and they are merriams.  99% of them came from kettle falls area.  Seems that most of them hang out in the houses where they are getting fed.  You can see them along the highway also but mostly in the houses. 

You say the turkeys around North Bend were released and that 99% of them came from the Kettle Falls area.
QUESTION...........Who released them.....WDFW?  What about the other 1%?  What is your source....were you there for any of those releases?  Please fill us in.

[fishunt247]

Maybe he is referring to the releases in Kittitas??? Then his statistics may be valid

[WABONEHNTR]

The WDFW was not involved.  I am not going to name names.  But I am more then sure there are a few barn yard raised turks walking around in the area. 

[Gobble]

The birds in North Bend have migrated from the Teanaway flock

[Wacenturion]

The WDFW was not involved.  I am not going to name names.  But I am more then sure there are a few barn yard raised turks walking around in the area. 

Thanks...appreciate you clarifying your statement.  Most folks would have read your comment and thought WDFW had released birds there.  I knew they did not release Merriam's or any other subspecies anywhere near North Bend.  I figured it was probably game farm stock, but I gather some locals must have caught some over in the NE and brought them over...poults most likely or otherwise trapped some birds.

Appreciate your commenting, as that clears up the mystical Merriams coming down from above.  The way you describe them hanging around houses where they are fed is typical of game farm stock, or in this case imprinted poults or tamed down older birds.  That jives with comments from Turkey Tamer and others regarding birds hanging around houses, across from gas stations, and so on.

Thanks again...,.....
 

[Wacenturion]

The birds in North Bend have migrated from the Teanaway flock

Not if what WABONEHNTR says is true.  Pretty well says it all about where they came from.....at least the majority of sightings that is.  Part way down the pass...wild acting bird....maybe from above.  Standing around town.....don't think so.

[WABONEHNTR]

I would say most of the birds are of pure wild stock. I have heard there were more than 150 total released over a couple years.  The people around here love them and feed them year around.  Last year I saw a flock of over 40.  There arent a lot of good places to hunt them but you never know where they might be. 

[Wacenturion]

Just might add......those kinds of sightings of birds released by people give rise to comments from hunters that somehow Merriam's would do well on the coast, because they heard they have done well around North Bend, or in the LaConner area to name another.

It does a real dis-service to the overall program, and probably stimulates others to think they can help by doing the same.....buying game farm birds and releasing the subspecies they see, because the WDFW will not.  Last but not least it turns off non hunters and property owners because these birds end up crapping on their roof or decks.  That gives turkeys a bad name and could potentially nix any release in that area.  Just food for thought.........

[WABONEHNTR]

I agree. 

[Wacenturion]

I would say most of the birds are of pure wild stock. I have heard there were more than 150 total released over a couple years.  The people around here love them and feed them year around.  Last year I saw a flock of over 40.  There arent a lot of good places to hunt them but you never know where they might be. 

If poults were caught and brought over, then wild stock doesn't mean much, once they are imprinted on people.  You know, feeding and caring until big enough to turn loose.  Even being from wild stock in a situation as you describe, they are tame turkeys and will get tamer.  There will be people eventually in the neighborhoods that will get tired of the mess....scratchings in flower beds, droppings on sidewalks, roofs, decks....cars...yep sitting on the top of cars.  With that you probably gets scratches too....lol.

As I said before, those kinds of turkeys give turkeys a bad name.

[Tom Tamer]

I agree. 

 

And right now we need all the positive support we can muster because the turkey's biggest enemy right now is the WDFW.... we need to do all we can to either shake up the hierarchy or at least the mentality there in order to move forward