Bullet Question

[Monsterbull11]

   Hey folks,
 I just ordered and received a box of these to try in my ML.
Question I have is, have any of you tried/hunted with these
pure brass bullets from Lehigh Defense?
 I've searched off and on for a while for a bullet that would
"consistently" penetrate most anything that I might put in front of it.
But with that said, there needs to be sufficient terminal damage to go
with it and I'm wondering if some of you might know. 

[MountainDevil54]

make sure your state allows the use of a non  expanding bullet.

[h20hunter]

@Sabotloader

 

He will know.  Numero uno front loader we have amongst us.

[Monsterbull11]

  Wow, good call.
 I just read through the firearms rules and equipment rules and unless I'm missing
something, I should be good/legal to use them.
 I've also watched several tutorials on this type of bullet shot through gel and it
does a pretty good job. But real life results are always best.

[Sabotloader]

   Hey folks,
 I just ordered and received a box of these to try in my ML.
Question I have is, have any of you tried/hunted with these
pure brass bullets from Lehigh Defense?
 I've searched off and on for a while for a bullet that would
"consistently" penetrate most anything that I might put in front of it.
But with that said, there needs to be sufficient terminal damage to go
with it and I'm wondering if some of you might know.

I can tell you Lehigh makes some of the most lethal performing bullets on the market. The XP bullet design is not really new but as has been suggested make sure that you can harvest animals with a non-expanding bullet.

If you look closely at the bullet especially the shape of the nose you will be able to see the by the design the tip nose is meant to collect and channel fluid.  It will collect a volume of fluid that is greater than can escape at the bottom of the groove. The fluid will be collected and the channeled back through the X squeezed to a fine beam of fluid and forced upward and outward from the bullets nose.  This stream,depending on velocity, will act a cutting device cutting/rupturing adjacent organs. The nose essentially creates four fluid cutting torches that radiate outward from the bullet.  In addition the velocity of the bullet passing through the fluid atmosphere creates Hydro-static pressure with the fluid atmosphere.  And the final advantage is in most cases the bullet will pass through and exit the opposite side of the animal providing a blood letting channel,



I have tested the bullet for accuracy and effect on water targets, but I have not used it as a hunting bullet. Others have!

 

[h20hunter]

Kaboom. 

Pretty cool.

[Stein]

Reminds me of when I put a Phillips screwdriver through the palm of my hand.

[wadu1]

Reminds me of when I put a Phillips screwdriver through the palm of my hand.

Done that, hurts like a Mother#$@&@*.

[Magnum_Willys]

Reminds me of when I put a Phillips screwdriver through the palm of my hand.

Thats funny right there ! Probably where they got the design idea.   

[Monsterbull11]

Sabotloader,

  How did your accuracy tests turn out on these bullets?

[Sabotloader]

Sabotloader,

  How did your accuracy tests turn out on these bullets?

I thought I might have some targets or even pictures of the testing but.... I can not find them.

As I remember they shot really well, I have a vague memory of shooting clays in the rock pit one time and thinking how much more loud they seemed to be when they hit the basalt rock. I remember thing geez! these things hit hard.  And I also remember they had no problem hitting the clays - so they were going where I was aiming.

I have not shot any of them recently as I pretty much stayed with the Lehigh CF bullets.

mike

[trophyhunt]

@sabotloader. And others, the Puyallup river road muzzy shop owner told me the most popular bullet is the power belt .338 grn.  Is that true?  I’m getting ready to site in my new CVA and want the best bullet.  209 primer, 100 grains of pellet form powder. 50 cal

[WSU]

I’ve been having good results with the 290 Barnes.

[Monsterbull11]

@sabotloader. And others, the Puyallup river road muzzy shop owner told me the most popular bullet is the power belt .338 grn.  Is that true?  I’m getting ready to site in my new CVA and want the best bullet.  209 primer, 100 grains of pellet form powder. 50 cal

  If you're a big review reader, I'd certainly look at the reviews on those before I bought. I've personally talked to guys that really like them and some others think they're the biggest pieces of crap on the market. And the reviews I've read say about the same thing.

[Sabotloader]

@sabotloader. And others, the Puyallup river road muzzy shop owner told me the most popular bullet is the power belt .338 grn.  Is that true?  I’m getting ready to site in my new CVA and want the best bullet.  209 primer, 100 grains of pellet form powder. 50 cal

This just my thought on this subject and may not be relative to you... Power Belts are certainly one the easiest bullets on the market to load and as much as I hate to say they are accurate.  In fact them and pellets make life a lot easier for a lot of folks.

Power Belts are a very soft lead and that leads to problems when the bullet contacts a large bone - they tend to shatter.  Also if you load a significant load, like going into over drive they may break apart inside the animal.  They also do work for some people and work well.  From the stuff that I have seen and read they are not a bullet for me - especially hunting elk.

My suggestion and that all it is a suggestion there are many better bullet on the market.

I would suggest to you to look at the Lehigh Defense .452x265 CF-HP copper bullet in a MMP HPH-24 black sabot.  If you are not hunting elk and concentrating on deer then a really good suggestion would be the Lehigh .451x23 CF-HP bullet in the same sabot. Both of these bullets will work well with pellet power but at some point you really need to consider loose powder.

Lehigh .452x265 CF-HP



Lehigh .451x230 CF-HP

[trophyhunt]

Mostly want the set up for elk, so it sounds like the two boxes of power belts I have are for sale then!  What grain is best ?  WSU, I had 290 grn in my older muzzy and had trouble killing a bull one year, took a couple good shots and then lived for about 10 minutes. The guy at the muzzy shop said 290 was too small for elk??

[Sabotloader]

Mostly want the set up for elk, so it sounds like the two boxes of power belts I have are for sale then!  What grain is best ?  WSU, I had 290 grn in my older muzzy and had trouble killing a bull one year, took a couple good shots and then lived for about 10 minutes. The guy at the muzzy shop said 290 was too small for elk??

I have been adamant about shooting a 300 grain bullet when hunting elk - but truth be known that really isn't all that necessary.  It all depends on the "Terminal Performance" and the energy the bullet carries to the target.

The 290 Barnes is quite capable of bringing an elk down.  Big bulls in the rut can be a challenge for any bullet but they can be had. There really are a lot of bullets that will work. 

I just prefer the way that the Lehigh CF bullets work.  I think I have an explanation written out but not on this computer.  I will add it later.  Briefly it sheds the 6 petals on the nose in the liquid atmosphere of the chest cavity and the rest of the bullet continues through the animal and 99% of the time the bullet exits.  Creating 'hydro-static' damage as it travels and providing a exit blood letting hole.

Well I can not find the description I was looking for... so I will try to share how the bullet works.

The 265 bullet is a very hard copper bullet it does not operate that a typical bullet or a Barnes does. The bullet enters the chest cavity and at contact the bullet remains as it it was shot. The projectile enters the hide passes through it or bone until it reaches the fluid atmosphere of the chest cavity.  At that point the nose of the bullet starts to expand.  When the 6 petals expand to about 40* they them break off and move out into the organs of the chest rupturing adjacent organs.  The rest of the bullet, the bulk of the weight of the bullet, continues on through the animal creating additional hydro-static shock and will exit the opposite side of the animal creating a bloodletting hole.  The bullet in most cases creates such a traumatic shock to the animal it often over rides the animal 'flight response".

I am sorry I can not find the official description of the bullet operation - it so much more complete than this one.

This is the computed ballistic sheet for the Lehigh 265 gr. CF-HP



Note the available velocity and energy at 200 yards - easily enough to make the bullet work.

I will post this now and then come back and add how the Lehigh CF works

mike

[JakeLand]

Mostly want the set up for elk, so it sounds like the two boxes of power belts I have are for sale then!  What grain is best ?  WSU, I had 290 grn in my older muzzy and had trouble killing a bull one year, took a couple good shots and then lived for about 10 minutes. The guy at the muzzy shop said 290 was too small for elk??

295 grain powerbelt is deadly on elk

[Smossy]

   Hey folks,
 I just ordered and received a box of these to try in my ML.
Question I have is, have any of you tried/hunted with these
pure brass bullets from Lehigh Defense?
 I've searched off and on for a while for a bullet that would
"consistently" penetrate most anything that I might put in front of it.
But with that said, there needs to be sufficient terminal damage to go
with it and I'm wondering if some of you might know.

I can tell you Lehigh makes some of the most lethal performing bullets on the market. The XP bullet design is not really new but as has been suggested make sure that you can harvest animals with a non-expanding bullet.

If you look closely at the bullet especially the shape of the nose you will be able to see the by the design the tip nose is meant to collect and channel fluid.  It will collect a volume of fluid that is greater than can escape at the bottom of the groove. The fluid will be collected and the channeled back through the X squeezed to a fine beam of fluid and forced upward and outward from the bullets nose.  This stream,depending on velocity, will act a cutting device cutting/rupturing adjacent organs. The nose essentially creates four fluid cutting torches that radiate outward from the bullet.  In addition the velocity of the bullet passing through the fluid atmosphere creates Hydro-static pressure with the fluid atmosphere.  And the final advantage is in most cases the bullet will pass through and exit the opposite side of the animal providing a blood letting channel,



I have tested the bullet for accuracy and effect on water targets, but I have not used it as a hunting bullet. Others have!

 

How do people like you even exist lol I’ll continue to be ok at everything, and master nothing
It’s a shame Washington state considers muzzeloaders firearms and the feds don’t. Would be nice to be able to at least try it. Maybe someday they will come around?

[Sabotloader]

smossy

How do people like you even exist lol I’ll continue to be ok at everything, and master nothing
It’s a shame Washington state considers muzzeloaders firearms and the feds don’t. Would be nice to be able to at least try it. Maybe someday they will come around?

I am not capturing what you are really saying here?

Would you clarify for me a little bit more?

mike

[trophyhunt]

Smossy can’t carry firearms.  I was going to say, it’s hard to imagine a 265 grn bullet being the best for elk ?  I no way am questioning your knowledge, it just surprises me and makes me second guess the light of a bullet.  But either way, it sounds like your 265 and the 295 would be better options than the 338 I was recommended. 

[Smossy]

  Felon. I bow hunt but the thought of other means was always nice... If they would ever open up big game hunting with air rifles, that would be the bees knees. Compressed air 350g projectile.. No powder, low noise.. 

[JimmyHoffa]

Felon. I bow hunt but the thought of other means was always nice... If they would ever open up big game hunting with air rifles, that would be the bees knees. Compressed air 350g projectile.. No powder, low noise.. 

I think you could go out of state.  If I remember correctly, Florida doesn't restrict blackpowder guns.  They have hogs, deer and other things.  You can spear hogs too....a warm up for your bear spearing.

[JakeLand]

I know bullet question is the topic but I’ll throw this out finding a powder and bullet combo that’s accurate is just as important
For the cva shooter they designed this finally that is for the cva not a monkey rigging of parts and shims and it’s very accurate

[trophyhunt]

Just put this site on.

[trophyhunt]

.

[kentrek]

Smossy can’t carry firearms.  I was going to say, it’s hard to imagine a 265 grn bullet being the best for elk ?  I no way am questioning your knowledge, it just surprises me and makes me second guess the light of a bullet.  But either way, it sounds like your 265 and the 295 would be better options than the 338 I was recommended.

Please take this with a grain of salt...I'm not a muzzy hunter, I've been around probably less then 20 muzzy kills...but I'm a nerd with stuff like this and I'm getting bored at home

That bullet designed he posted kills differently then conventional bullets, it doesn't kill with mass...with rifles I've seen a similar concepts 1st hand its pretty cool but still need more experience

Nothing wrong with killing with mass but in a world of having a lot of drop I would think the extra speed would be hugely beneficial in the field

[trophyhunt]

Where do you guy those Barnes 452x265 muzzy bullets?

[Sabotloader]

Where do you guy those Barnes 452x265 muzzy bullets?

They are not Barnes they are Lehigh Defense. Follow this link

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1019135027

Here is a second source

https://sskfirearms.lehighdefense.com/all-products?product_id=136

As a suggestion I would suggest you purchase a factory bullet in the same weight are as a practice/sight in bullet - they are less expensive to shoot.

Also you will need to order some sabots...

https://mmpsabots.com/store/black-hph24-sabot50-pcs/

https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/index.php/products/sabots/item/53-50-cal-short-sabot-for-451-452-cal-300-grain-or-less-bullet

Hope this helps a bit

mike

[trophyhunt]

One more question...... for now, lol.  How do you get good rifling if your bullet is covered w a plastic cover (sabot)?

[Smossy]

Felon. I bow hunt but the thought of other means was always nice... If they would ever open up big game hunting with air rifles, that would be the bees knees. Compressed air 350g projectile.. No powder, low noise.. 

I think you could go out of state.  If I remember correctly, Florida doesn't restrict blackpowder guns.  They have hogs, deer and other things.  You can spear hogs too....a warm up for your bear spearing.

Yeah there is actually a handful of states I could potentially hunt with ML.
Lol how the heck do you remember that I want a spear bear? My memory is barely that good anymore.

[Sabotloader]

One more question...... for now, lol.  How do you get good rifling if your bullet is covered w a plastic cover (sabot)?

Not a problem at all. The polymer sabot conforms to the bore of the rifle.  Even though a ML bore has very shallow grooves the sabot conforms and shoots the loaded bullet with great accuracy.

The key is to get the sabot that fits your bore the best. Sabots come in different thicknesses just for this.

Once you load a sabot/bullet combination and push it out the breech you will not have a problem seeing the land and groove impression on the sabot.

 

[Buckjunkie]

This thread is like Christmas at the in-laws. My brother in law asks a good question and pretty soon everyone else butts in and changes the topic blurting out whats on their mind and soon no one remembers why we are even here and the question was never answered.

Nice thread jacking guys🤦‍♂️

[trophyhunt]

Somebody needs a snickers, lol!  The thread started out asking about a certain bullet, it just continued from there, with a slight bump in the road.

[JakeLand]

  from bullets to sights to outta state hunting just don’t bring the chinacoronashutdowntheeconomyandinsleeisaidiot into it !